Project Rebirth - Planet construction

[the broken]

on the test server all you get is 200 bill and 30k turns if i remember rightly

[jessiedog]

no u get whatever emi decides to give us 

[Amagnon]

Well, from what Ive seen so far these will not be income sources - they just cant be grown to anywhere near the values they would need to be to be considered useful income streams. 

300 years worth of turns to get to 150 trillion workers, or 2 years per 1 trillion workers - thats solely investing all your turns in them to expand their size.  Not viable obviously.

If they produce reasonable mineral supplies then they will be useful - but the stated idea that they would in someway contribute to players incomes is obviously not going to work with those turn costs.

[SirEmi]

no u get whatever emi decides to give us 

1. That's correct, we're taking the so wars on the test server, clearing the galaxy and fleets then everyone will receive resources to gain the appropriate tech levels and build a planet and some stations and try it out...

2. Someone asked about the marines:

The attacking marines will have the commander bonus to their attack power. Items can't be used. So:

Attacking marines: commander bonus to attack, has default 1 hitpoint, e.g. 50% => 1 marine = 1 HP, 1 + .5 Attack

Defending colonists (receive bonus to attack as well as hitpoints, has default 2 hitpoints): commander bonus defender e.g. 50%, planet type e.g. Rocky (and lvl 2 tech rocky) +50% * 2, command center structure (can have more, bonus stacks) +10% => 50 + 50*2 + 10 = 160 % => 1 colonist = 2 + (2*1.6=3.2) HP, 1 + 1.6 Attack

The attack pattern makes it harder to invade a planet that has max or more then max colonists on it. This is because:

Attacker has 10 waves, if 10 fleets are used to invade. The attack wave deployed depends on the space left on the planet.
If a planet has more colonists then it can hold, can happen if you terraform a Gaia to a Rocky, the attacker wave capacity will be 5% of total planet capacity.

Taking a 100% populated planet and a 1:1 marine/colonist kill ratio this is what happens:

To Raid: kill 50% or more of colonists
To Conquer: kill 80% or more of colonists

Attacking waves:
1: colonists 100........ attackers (5% of PC) 5 => colonists 97.5..... attackers 0
2: colonists 97.5........ attackers (105-97.5) 7.5 => colonists 93,75 ..... attackers 0
3: colonists 93,75 ........ attackers 11,25 => colonists 88,125 ..... attackers 0
4: colonists 88,125 ........ attackers 16,875 => colonists 79,68 ..... attackers 0
5: colonists 79,68 ........ attackers 25,32 => colonists 67,02 ..... attackers 0
6: colonists 67,02 ........ attackers 37,98 => colonists 48,03 ..... attackers 0    -> on a raid, the combat would stop here, and the attacker will successfully raid the planet, provided another wave is available, total attacker marines lost: 103.925

for conquer we continue...
7: colonists 48,03 ........ attackers 56,97 => colonists 28,485 ..... attackers 11,94 return to the ship
8: colonists 28,485 ........ attackers 76,515 => colonists 0 ..... attackers 48,03 return to the ship
battle stops because all colonists have been killed but it can go up to 10 waves -> Conquering will be successull however all colonists will be killed in this scenario, tot marines lost attacker: 132.41


Scenario II:
1 HP & 1.5 AP of attacker vs. 2+3.2 HP & 2.6 AP of defender

Attacking waves:
1: colonists 100 ........ attackers (5% of PC) 5 => colonists damage ( 5 * 1.5 / 5.2 = 1.44 ) 98,56 ..... attackers damage ( 100 * 2.6 / 1 = 260 ) 0
2: colonists 98,56 ........ attackers (105-98,56) 6,44 => colonists ( 7.88 * 1.5 / 5.2 = 1.85 ) 96,71 ..... attackers 0
3: colonists 96,71 ........ attackers 8,29 => colonists damage 2,39 remaining 94,32 .....attackers 0
4: colonists 94,32 ........ attackers 10,68 => colonists damage 3.08 remaining 91,24 .....attackers 0
5: colonists 91,24 ........ attackers 13,76 => colonists damage 3.70 remaining 87,54 .....attackers 0
6: colonists 87,54 ........ attackers 17,46 => colonists damage 5.03 remaining 82,51 .....attackers 0
7: colonists 82,51 ........ attackers 22,49 => colonists damage 6,48 remaining 76,03 .....attackers 0
8: colonists 76,03 ........ attackers 28,97 => colonists damage 8.35 remaining 67,68 .....attackers 0
9: colonists 67,68 ........ attackers 37,32 => colonists damage 10.76 remaining 56,92 .....attackers 0
10: colonists 56,92 ........ attackers 48,08 => colonists damage 13.86 remaining 43,06 .....attackers 0
=> if raid then it's successfull at the 10'th wave, if counquer a second attempt is needed.

defener losses: 56,94 colonists
attacker losses: 198,49 marines

I think the calcs are correct, I may be wrong... some variables like personal shields for the colonists are missing... marines can't use ship shields...

Planet decay due to successfull attacks:

Planet Quality: Raid -5%, Conquer, -25%
Planet Structures: Conquer, -50%
Captured amount (resources & credits): Raid 20% captured, 10% destroyed (-30% to defender),  Conquer: 50% captured, 50% destroyed

[SirEmi]

300 years worth of turns to get to 150 trillion workers, or 2 years per 1 trillion workers - thats solely investing all your turns in them to expand their size.  Not viable obviously.

Imagine how many changes I could make in 300 years lol, seriously now it's not difficult to balance... we can lower the turns cost to increase base capacity, still balancing there...

[Amagnon]

300 years worth of turns to get to 150 trillion workers, or 2 years per 1 trillion workers - thats solely investing all your turns in them to expand their size.  Not viable obviously.

Imagine how many changes I could make in 300 years lol, seriously now it's not difficult to balance... we can lower the turns cost to increase base capacity, still balancing there...

Ok cool - so the intention for them to produce useful income is still there - thats the main question I had.

Correctly balancing the turns is close to impossible because every players turns have a different credit value, and every players turns/credit value changes as the game economy changes.  Its an impossible balancing act that will either be consistently wrong for most players most of the time, or will require complicated tweaks all the time to try and balance it.

This is a similar issue to bases not having enough attack power and hit points etc - bases are built using tech, but ships are built using economies - its trying to equate apples and oranges.

If you remove the turns cost, then players will be constrained by their economies - economies are created by effective use of turns, so players who efficiently build income can benefit from doing that.  The rate a player can expand a planets capacity is already constrained by their income - if you set the return on assets at a low value, then it will take a long time to grow them to full capacity (which hasnt been set yet?)

Having mentioned the capacity limit - can I raise that one again please - how will these be capped to ensure we dont get a problem like the stash issue again?

[SirEmi]

If you remove the turns cost, then players will be constrained by their economies - economies are created by effective use of turns, so players who efficiently build income can benefit from doing that.  The rate a player can expand a planets capacity is already constrained by their income - if you set the return on assets at a low value, then it will take a long time to grow them to full capacity (which hasnt been set yet?)

Having mentioned the capacity limit - can I raise that one again please - how will these be capped to ensure we dont get a problem like the stash issue again?

Ah, but you forget, the planet capacity can also be controled by segments, so if I set the cost to 20 segments, 50 mil cr for 10 mil capacity while removing the turn cost I am still limited by the amount of segments I can invest in the planet, also rasing the segment value and thus, increasing pvp... this also created a closed circle in SO WARS, because I have to choose to invest segments in secret base to get workers income & interest, or in planet to get colonists income... or both

[Amagnon]

Emi -

Ah true, that looks good then - its just the turns that would have created a headache.

When you say segments cost, where do the segments go?  Off into oblivion, or are they in the pvp arena like biofarms are - so can a direct attack harm a planets capacity?  That might be a dumb question because I havent tried the test server yet - I have to use an internet cafe for a week or so, and the speed always sucks - so I am not that inspired to try anything that requires a lot of clicking.

I will go on the test server - but for me, its like that foul tasting medicine you were forced to take as a child - you know its probably neccessary, but you just dont want to take it.