Forum - Space Odyssey MMORPG - a massive free online space game

Project Rebirth:

Description: Recent technology advances and accumulated resources have lead to the discovery of a new reserach field in science. In theory, it is possible to construct an asteroid base big enough to serve as a construction site for the future developement of a planet. While the investment in resources is rather large, the creation of planets will bring once again a sence of homeland to the colonists that have too long served in the fleets roaming trough space. Needless to say, the planets will have to be very well defended in order to escape the holocaust that happened in The Great War. Space stations will be construted in orbit that will defend the semi-artificial planet from enemy invasion, however there are certain cov ops operations, like heists and raids that could dwindle the planetary economy, but one thing is certain, that this new planetary vision will be the future to the salvation of The Galaxy.


- Research new category -> Planetary Knowledge, Planetary structures.

Tech:

Planet Creation (Asteroid Planet Creation Facility, +1 Planet Facility / level)

Asteroid Planet Contruction Facility
under 50% capacity
(http://wars.spaceo.net/galaxy/planets/pl_ast_20.jpg)

over 50% capacity, ice & metals surface indicate high activity
(http://wars.spaceo.net/galaxy/planets/pl_ast_50.jpg)


Protoplanet (+50% combat / level) for this type of planet
under 20% capacity, doesn't have an atmosphere, planetary ring of resources used in constuction and terraforming
(http://wars.spaceo.net/galaxy/planets/pl_proto_20.jpg)

under 75% capacity, medium pollution in the atmosphere, necesary for the next step in heating the planet for terraforming and indication of medium activity on planet surface
(http://wars.spaceo.net/galaxy/planets/pl_proto_50.jpg)

over 75% capacity, high pollution in the atmosphere, high activity, high pollution due to the industrial activity
(http://wars.spaceo.net/galaxy/planets/pl_proto_80.jpg)

Terraforming (enable the terraforming of the protoplanet)

Next planet types same rules apply for appearence depending on capacity, only Gaia looks the same whatever the capacity on it...

Rock (+1% capacity, +5% mining, +30% combat / level) for this type of planet

Desert (+2% capacity, +10% mining, +25% combat / level) for this type of planet

Ice (+3% capacity, +5% mining, +5% credits, +20% combat / level) for this type of planet

Ocean (+5% capacity, +10% credits, +15% combat / level) for this type of planet

Terra (+10% capacity, +25% mining, -15% combat / level) for this type of planet

Gaia (+20% capacity, +20% mining, +20% credits, -30% combat / level) for this type of planet

Habitat Improvement (+5% to all planets production & capacity per level)

Planet Setup:
- Can not setup planetary contruction asteroid if foreign space station or foreign fleets in system
- setup costs: about 10 days of mining, lots of stone and carbon.

If planet:
- Can not setup enemy system fleets
- Can not setup enemy space station / structures

Planetary Structures technology:

Combat / Support:
- Command Center (+10% combat / structure)
- Planetary Shield (defending ground forces +5% absorb, orbital fleets / space station +5% absorb / structure)
- Orbital Defense (+25% orbit station fleet support / structure)
- Orbital Shipyard (+50% system fleets / station HP / structure)

Production:
- Underground Habitat (+5% capacity / structure)
- Planetary Factory (+5% mining production / structure)
- Planetary Bank (+5% mining credits prod / structure)
- Terraforming Facility (-5% terraforming time / structure, max -75% , 15 structures)

Colonists:
Transfer from secret base: 1 worker = 1 colonist
Hire new colonists: 1 colonist = 2 credits on SO WARS, 1 credit for the other servers.

Planet production: 15% of colonists numbers / day, 60 min cycle / modified by Improved Habitat tech.
Production: Mining / Credits / Terraforming, able to set % so planet can do all at once by dividing production.

Planet Capacity (PC): Planet total colonists capacity.
Default PC: 100.000.000.000 colonists
Manually increase PC: 20 free segments, 50.000.000 credits for each additional 10.000.000 added to the base PC.
The PC is then adjusted by planet type, structures, tech.

Growth: 5% per day, -5% per day if under planet total capacity.

Input: Planetary structures & planetary tech level for type of planet & Habitat Improvement tech
Increase habitat / maximum workers / colonists on the surface of the planet.


Production: Mining
Input: Production coming from colonists, mining cost: uses production points to mine the planet, 1 mil production points for 1 carbon. Pollution increments depending on production value, higher industry = more waste.
Output: Selected mineral type modified by workers / production.
note: The amount depends on the planet production, as does the amount of mined resources. You can have as many workers as you want, but to increase production you have to upgrade the planet.

Production: Credits
Input: Planet production assigned
Output: 300% production converted to credits + tech / planet type / structures bonus modifiers

Production: Terraforming
Input: Required tech level and type, workers / colonists,  real time while terraforming
Output: Boost planet capacity and base production depending on new planet type. Planet changes appearance.

Production Cycles: 60 minutes

Planetary market: Ability to set a price between a defined min and max for minerals and trade to other commanders.
Option to allow trade only to alliance members or public.

Planetary defense and modules:

Planetary Structures
Input: Minerals
Output: Planetary defense structures

Planetary Structures: Orbital defense (mostly bonuses to help in defense of the base and friendly in home sysytem)
Input: Minerals
Output: Orbital support modules

Planetary battle system:

Planetary Invasion:
- Marines on the invading ships battle ground forces. Ground Forces = the colonists are also the defense force, they use the equipment on the planet (planetary defense structures / armory / etc) to defend the planet.

Attacker invade options:
-> Raid (receive 20% of the minerals / credits on the surface, planet enters rebellion and can not be attacked anymore for 24 hours)
-> Conquer (only available if researched technology supports adding another planet to the max planet numbers, grants access to all resources on the planet, 50% of everything is destroyed by rebels, gives ownership of planet to attacker.)
-> If the planet owner has a space station in orbit, planet can only be Raided, not Conquered until space station has been destroyed.

To win Raid -> Planet casualties have to be 50% or more of planet colonists / workers, while attacker casualties <50% (20% of planet resources are deposited on the attacker mothership, 10% are destroyed.)
To win Conquer -> Planet casualties have to be 80% or more of planet colonists / workers, while attacker casualties <80% (Remaining colonists are enslaved and join the attacker, remaining on the planet surface. All loot is deposited on the attacker mothership.) (50% of planetary structures are destroyed)

Invasion combat special events:
- Surprise attack for marines in planetary combat, will increase marine wave attack by 1-25%
- Entrench for colonists will give the colonists attack bonus for that wave 10-30%, and 25-50% bonus to hitpoints to that wave and the next ones.

Note: If there are many workers on the planet and less resources to justify the marine expense in battle, the planet won't pose much of a target profit wise from raiding unless it is in a strategic position. Conquering would always be an option as opposed to the cost of building / upgrading a planet, provided the technology to support an additional planet has been researched.
- An enemy can not deploy a station or any fleets in a system that has a foreign planet.
- Can not deposit credits on planet, just load
- Can not take colonists off the planet once populated

No destroy planet at this time, only on Doom Day.

Invasion attack details:

Turn cost for an invasion attempt:
Raid: 100 turns
Conquer: 200 turns

- Attacker fleets land on surface and deploy troops one by one: Each attacking fleet will deploy a marine wave, max of 10 attacking waves (if 10 fleets with enough marines).
- The total number of marines at one time on the planet defending / attacking wave can not exceed 125% of the planet capacity.
- Each new attacker wave can have increasingly more numbers on enemies due to the loss of colonists on the previous wave.
- Once an attacking wave has been deployed, fighting will commence. Defenders will fight the attackers until.
- Once the defenders lose the required % of their default numbers, or the enemy waves have ended, victory conditions will be determined, surrender or repelled.


- Other changes:
Galaxy fleets and station attacks will cost 15 turns.

All hail Sir E. Were not worthy.....

sir emi! :surprise: this looks amazing! :mf_laughbounce2:

1 question tho, on attacking a planet, does absorb in the invading fleets have anything to do with marine losses?

I think the ship shields will not work on the planet surface, so the marines will have to rely on their basic number for the attacker while the defender will probably be outnumberd and have to rely on tech / structures / planet environement... you may notice the first environments of the planet are the hardest and they give the best combat bonus to the colonits.

Combat bonus to colonists will increase their attack power as well as their hitpoints. You may have noticed the attacker has to use waves and if the planet is overpopulated (100% or more) it may be pretty tough on the attacker because colonists will repell the waves. For example, an overpopulated planet may have over 125% population,

e.g. I expect to be attacked so I terraform a Gaia environment to Rocky to give me the combat bonus. Now I have -5% growth per day and 250% overpopulation, colonists die but not quick. Now the attacker comes and tryes to invade, his marines will have to fight many colonists, if the colonists occupy more then 125%, then each attacker wave will only be like 5% of the planet capacity, giving the colonists the advantage until the growth adjusts their numbers.

This may lead to planetary sieges that could take days even, if the attacker doesn't have enough turns for the invasion attempts and the planet has many planetary shields / combat bonuses...

it should be very interesting once the defender logs back in and maybe decides to drop more fleets in orbit and maybe rebuild the space station so the attacker has to destroy it again to conquer. As you know, to conquer the station has to be destroyed, but the attacker may only want to raid, in witch case the station won't stop the invasion attempts...

Of course terraforming will take time, so intel will be very important if I have a Gaia and want the combat bonus, I should build terraform structures to reduce my terraforming time, of course having many colonists and setting 100% to terraform would reduce the time even more, up to a minimum limit in time of 5 hours... should be a lot of tactics involved...

Basically we want to make the attacker give a few tries before successfully raiding or conquering, it should be dramatic to resemble the whole drama of the planetary combat...

Also the invasion battles will be loged in the logs and the 10 fleets of the attacker and their numbers will be visible from the planet surface, so the defender will see what fleets the enemy is using, giving him a chance to maybe disrupt the invasion attempts by killing the marine ships, if they are both online during the siege...

This does look like a nice way to balance - but the turns cost is currently excessive - and I dont think you can add a turns cost and make it balance properly, also there is no capacity limit mentioned.

Heres the data you presented - 100 billion basic cap, increasing capacity yields a 3% return (5x basic cost, and 15% return; 15%/5 = 3%).

Example - it costs roughly 5 trillion credits to increase capacity to 1 trillion, then you get a 15% return on the 1 trillion - or 3% return on your capital investment, so, slightly better than secret base workers.

That part looks good, however - heres a couple issues. 

To create a planet with a 1 trillion population (which is then generating 150 billion a day, assuming the 15% production is per day, not per 60 mins) requires about 2 years worth of turns - 100,000 (number of upgrades) x 10 (turns per upgrade) = 1 million turns.  1,000,000 / 1,440 (one day) = 694 days.

The other main issue is, if theres no upper capactiy limit - then players are likely to build only one planet each - because it will have a lot more marines and will be more defensible.

nice and 10 new techs to play around with 2 :)

hmm good point on the turns amagnon

maybe the starting population cap could be a be higher?

You also have planet bonuses, habitat improvement ultimate planet tech that give 5% to capacity and production and planetary structures to increase capacity. All those bonuses are cumulated into one bonus that is applied to the base increased capacity. E.g. increase manually to 200 bil colonits, then bonuses are applied. Depending on tech level, planet type and planet improvements, the base capacity one increased can easily double.


Yes that's exactly what we want, no detectable limits but in the same time a high cost in time to limit the power upgrade of the planet.
However if that doesn't work, the backup sollution is to make the upgrade take real time of 20 minutes, 10 segments and 50 mil credits for 10 mil capacity.
We also don't want that many planets in the Galaxy, we only have 1000 systems and planets once constructed can not be dismanteled. Right now we only have one planet per system. Once could go just fine with 1 home planet and 1 open slot to conquer another...

A big planet that has all the upgrades and best combat bonuses, if both the defender and the attacker have enough marines, will be the same to defend as a small planet because:

- Attacker marines that can be deployed in one wave increases with the Total Planet Capacity:
The more capacity the more marines will be deployed, the number of invasion attempts remains the same, just the marines cost of invasion increases.

- A planet that has been conquered or constructed and is no longer needed for reasons like having space to conquer and empty another planet, can be abandoned by the commander. Colonists can not be removed from the planet and build structures can not be destroyed, resources and credits can be removed before abandoning. The established colonists will then gain control of the abandoned planet, set their production to 50% mining & 50% credits and the planet name will be "Abandoned Planet" until someone else comes and conquers it... production and colonists growth will go on...

Test server will open soon for construction of planets and maintenance, and battle / invasion soon after...

EMi - you stated that you wanted planets to contribute to a players economy?  With those turns costs that will never happen - they will just be used for mining.

To become half a players income a planet will need about 150 trillion workers on it.  Thats 300 years worth of turns!!??  Do you really want them to be income sources or not?

If so, then I think youd need to remove the turns cost entirely - they still require large capital investment and take a long time to grow to high income streams.

Lets see how it works now for example. 

Return on capital is 3%. 

You stated a while back you want them to become siginicant sources of income, so lets say a player has a daily income of 10 trillion.  We want the planet to comprise half of his income, so the planet needs to generate 10 trillion also - being half of the final income of 20 trillion.  This requires a capital investment of about 330 trillion credits. 

Lets say the player diverts 5 trillion credits per day into the planet to build its capacity.  That will take 66 days investing 5 trillion per day to get the planets income up to 10 trillion per day - is this a reasonable time period?

Also - I would remind you of the issue that we had with stash that was corrected recently - there really has to be some cap on the top end or these things will eventually spiral out of control also.  I have no idea what kind of cap youd apply and how to manage it.  If its not linked to segs, what do you link it to?  Commander level?  Or just pick a number and set it at that?

I guess players will buy a certain amount of workers also - so that adds to the capital cost, but they wont buy them for long - just at the start.  After that they can just increase the capacity and worker growth will exceed the rate they can build.

nah not remove turn cost entirely
remember theres terraforming. idk lets just test it out before anything else happens

Terraforming, habitat improvement, underground habitat, all those increase planet base capacity.

Base Capacity = 100 bil + manual increase amount.

When capacity is increased, this increases the production of the colonists, more colonists = more production.

Limits: The turn cost to increase base capacity is a limitation of the planet economic growth. We also have to take into consideration that an increased base production planet can be abandoned, and it keeps it's base capacity. Severeal commanders / owners will be able to increase it's base capacity this way. Raiding a planet successfully will decrease base capacity by 5%, conquering by 25%.  :pokey:

Planets
Primary objective: generate additional mining materials for stations / other planets
Secondary objective: credits production
Tertiary objective: fleet / station support, strategic position

are these the marines currently on our ships? if so can crew bonus's count oward taking planets because this would mean that if they have a crew bonus then they would suffer less loses making it more profitable to attack planets

Will you give us the resources to build strait way please  :P  Cos I'm all out  hi

on the test server all you get is 200 bill and 30k turns if i remember rightly

no u get whatever emi decides to give us  :wow:

Well, from what Ive seen so far these will not be income sources - they just cant be grown to anywhere near the values they would need to be to be considered useful income streams. 

300 years worth of turns to get to 150 trillion workers, or 2 years per 1 trillion workers - thats solely investing all your turns in them to expand their size.  Not viable obviously.

If they produce reasonable mineral supplies then they will be useful - but the stated idea that they would in someway contribute to players incomes is obviously not going to work with those turn costs.

1. That's correct, we're taking the so wars on the test server, clearing the galaxy and fleets then everyone will receive resources to gain the appropriate tech levels and build a planet and some stations and try it out...

2. Someone asked about the marines:

The attacking marines will have the commander bonus to their attack power. Items can't be used. So:

Attacking marines: commander bonus to attack, has default 1 hitpoint, e.g. 50% => 1 marine = 1 HP, 1 + .5 Attack

Defending colonists (receive bonus to attack as well as hitpoints, has default 2 hitpoints): commander bonus defender e.g. 50%, planet type e.g. Rocky (and lvl 2 tech rocky) +50% * 2, command center structure (can have more, bonus stacks) +10% => 50 + 50*2 + 10 = 160 % => 1 colonist = 2 + (2*1.6=3.2) HP, 1 + 1.6 Attack

The attack pattern makes it harder to invade a planet that has max or more then max colonists on it. This is because:

Attacker has 10 waves, if 10 fleets are used to invade. The attack wave deployed depends on the space left on the planet.
If a planet has more colonists then it can hold, can happen if you terraform a Gaia to a Rocky, the attacker wave capacity will be 5% of total planet capacity.

Taking a 100% populated planet and a 1:1 marine/colonist kill ratio this is what happens:

To Raid: kill 50% or more of colonists
To Conquer: kill 80% or more of colonists

Attacking waves:
1: colonists 100........ attackers (5% of PC) 5 => colonists 97.5..... attackers 0
2: colonists 97.5........ attackers (105-97.5) 7.5 => colonists 93,75 ..... attackers 0
3: colonists 93,75 ........ attackers 11,25 => colonists 88,125 ..... attackers 0
4: colonists 88,125 ........ attackers 16,875 => colonists 79,68 ..... attackers 0
5: colonists 79,68 ........ attackers 25,32 => colonists 67,02 ..... attackers 0
6: colonists 67,02 ........ attackers 37,98 => colonists 48,03 ..... attackers 0    -> on a raid, the combat would stop here, and the attacker will successfully raid the planet, provided another wave is available, total attacker marines lost: 103.925

for conquer we continue...
7: colonists 48,03 ........ attackers 56,97 => colonists 28,485 ..... attackers 11,94 return to the ship
8: colonists 28,485 ........ attackers 76,515 => colonists 0 ..... attackers 48,03 return to the ship
battle stops because all colonists have been killed but it can go up to 10 waves -> Conquering will be successull however all colonists will be killed in this scenario, tot marines lost attacker: 132.41


Scenario II:
1 HP & 1.5 AP of attacker vs. 2+3.2 HP & 2.6 AP of defender

Attacking waves:
1: colonists 100 ........ attackers (5% of PC) 5 => colonists damage ( 5 * 1.5 / 5.2 = 1.44 ) 98,56 ..... attackers damage ( 100 * 2.6 / 1 = 260 ) 0
2: colonists 98,56 ........ attackers (105-98,56) 6,44 => colonists ( 7.88 * 1.5 / 5.2 = 1.85 ) 96,71 ..... attackers 0
3: colonists 96,71 ........ attackers 8,29 => colonists damage 2,39 remaining 94,32 .....attackers 0
4: colonists 94,32 ........ attackers 10,68 => colonists damage 3.08 remaining 91,24 .....attackers 0
5: colonists 91,24 ........ attackers 13,76 => colonists damage 3.70 remaining 87,54 .....attackers 0
6: colonists 87,54 ........ attackers 17,46 => colonists damage 5.03 remaining 82,51 .....attackers 0
7: colonists 82,51 ........ attackers 22,49 => colonists damage 6,48 remaining 76,03 .....attackers 0
8: colonists 76,03 ........ attackers 28,97 => colonists damage 8.35 remaining 67,68 .....attackers 0
9: colonists 67,68 ........ attackers 37,32 => colonists damage 10.76 remaining 56,92 .....attackers 0
10: colonists 56,92 ........ attackers 48,08 => colonists damage 13.86 remaining 43,06 .....attackers 0
=> if raid then it's successfull at the 10'th wave, if counquer a second attempt is needed.

defener losses: 56,94 colonists
attacker losses: 198,49 marines

I think the calcs are correct, I may be wrong... some variables like personal shields for the colonists are missing... marines can't use ship shields...

Planet decay due to successfull attacks:

Planet Quality: Raid -5%, Conquer, -25%
Planet Structures: Conquer, -50%
Captured amount (resources & credits): Raid 20% captured, 10% destroyed (-30% to defender),  Conquer: 50% captured, 50% destroyed

Imagine how many changes I could make in 300 years lol, seriously now it's not difficult to balance... we can lower the turns cost to increase base capacity, still balancing there...

Ok cool - so the intention for them to produce useful income is still there - thats the main question I had.

Correctly balancing the turns is close to impossible because every players turns have a different credit value, and every players turns/credit value changes as the game economy changes.  Its an impossible balancing act that will either be consistently wrong for most players most of the time, or will require complicated tweaks all the time to try and balance it.

This is a similar issue to bases not having enough attack power and hit points etc - bases are built using tech, but ships are built using economies - its trying to equate apples and oranges.

If you remove the turns cost, then players will be constrained by their economies - economies are created by effective use of turns, so players who efficiently build income can benefit from doing that.  The rate a player can expand a planets capacity is already constrained by their income - if you set the return on assets at a low value, then it will take a long time to grow them to full capacity (which hasnt been set yet?)

Having mentioned the capacity limit - can I raise that one again please - how will these be capped to ensure we dont get a problem like the stash issue again?

Ah, but you forget, the planet capacity can also be controled by segments, so if I set the cost to 20 segments, 50 mil cr for 10 mil capacity while removing the turn cost I am still limited by the amount of segments I can invest in the planet, also rasing the segment value and thus, increasing pvp... this also created a closed circle in SO WARS, because I have to choose to invest segments in secret base to get workers income & interest, or in planet to get colonists income... or both :)

Emi -

Ah true, that looks good then - its just the turns that would have created a headache.

When you say segments cost, where do the segments go?  Off into oblivion, or are they in the pvp arena like biofarms are - so can a direct attack harm a planets capacity?  That might be a dumb question because I havent tried the test server yet - I have to use an internet cafe for a week or so, and the speed always sucks - so I am not that inspired to try anything that requires a lot of clicking.

I will go on the test server - but for me, its like that foul tasting medicine you were forced to take as a child - you know its probably neccessary, but you just dont want to take it.