SO Main - Why PvP?

[Renshaak]

Okay, Spayed, I've teed up the ball for you...

My question is what is the joy and goal of PvPing in SO Main?

My understanding is that it is very difficult to do for actual competition among fairly evenly matched players but very simple to be a bully, albeit expensive.  It is also usually the case that the defender has no legitimate recourse for retaliation.  Am I missing the point and people really do want competition or is the perception of free-range bully really that attractive to people?

I know some of my posts make people think I make Ghandi look like an enraged berserker, but my issue is that the brand of PvP we have seems to encourage bullying with little competition and keeps the player count in the game at a low level.
 

[Spayed]

firstly cause it gives me something to do other then grind all day cause thats boring as f**k.

secondly for either personal gain/ alliance gain/ retaliation/ your bored.

think about it, if one person is attacking other players, the other players lose out giving the first blokes alliance members a chance to grow and become stronger, because isnt the aim of the game to win/ help your alliance to the top, pvp is just a way that we can do this

[Renshaak]

firstly cause it gives me something to do other then grind all day cause thats boring as f**k.

Do you only gain satisfaction if you've zeroed someone or is defeating them and hurting them of at least notable value?

secondly for either personal gain/ alliance gain/ retaliation/ your bored.

All of these I can see.  But the retaliation motivation, which I'd argue is the most compelling, simply does not exist for most players in the game under the current PvP system.

think about it, if one person is attacking other players, the other players lose out giving the first blokes alliance members a chance to grow and become stronger, because isnt the aim of the game to win/ help your alliance to the top, pvp is just a way that we can do this

I absolutely agree from a purely strategic standpoint, it is sound.  Fender was a case study in the downside of this last round.  For every Spayed and TNT who got revved up to do something about it, there were probably many more who just got sick of it and walked away from the game.  Allowing one guy that much power is a prime symptom of why you never see "200 players online".

[TNTTony]

Ren,

Here is my opinion 

PVP against evenly matched players is definitely possible. Using tinies against evenly matched players is impossible though due to the sheer cost of it. The ability to power down to very low fp is one of the problems for those who are not into pvp. As long as I have little workers and segs, I can power down to pretty much any power and tiny people. Emi needs to just change the way we power down and that should stop some of the so-called "bullying" you mentioned. He should optimise the power down so pvpers still have a good supply of players to fight with. Then theres galaxy combat...but there are enough suggestions on the forum so I won't speak about it.

So what is the point of pvp? It is a players direct ability to slowing down your opponents. .you asked the question and that is my answer. From the losing side, pvp is hard to take.So hard that emi created a pve server for other players. pvp in so is not perfect (and it does need to be changed/optimised to be fair for everyone).

[Renshaak]

Correction, that is your ESTEEMED opinion ;)

We're pretty close to the same page on my base question.  I view it as a strategy among legitimately competetive players and would like to see a stop to the five orders of magnitude drops out of simple bloodlust.  Mechanisms to protect the weak from annihilation should raise the competition both by number of players staying around and by keeping one well-timed attack from essentially knocking someone out of contention.

[Spayed]

i just enjoy casing damage

but i have never powered down out of the top 20 2 hit noobs, i only hit those players who should be able to defend themselfs goodly

retaliation exists for everyone. the only reason somebody wouldnt b able to retaliate is if you get pwople powering down from the quads to the trills, even then its possible if u bide your time.

i 0'ed fender with a kami last round and he had 10 - 20 x my income.

[Renshaak]

but i have never powered down out of the top 20 2 hit noobs, i only hit those players who should be able to defend themselfs goodly

But others have. 

retaliation exists for everyone. the only reason somebody wouldnt b able to retaliate is if you get pwople powering down from the quads to the trills, even then its possible if u bide your time.

i 0'ed fender with a kami last round and he had 10 - 20 x my income.

You are the exception to the rule, though.  Others do power down.  And most players cannot retaliate.  Partially by inexperience, partially because outside of the top 20, the guys who are doing the hitting come in when the other guy is offline or they work their way up the ranks taking out people then moving up.  Then they put everything away again.  You think grinding is boring, try refreshing the ranking every thirty seconds to see if that guy you owe payback to is around.

I know some of the things I suggest suck for you, but I'm ultimately trying to suggest things that are better for the game.  The top 10-15 players are outliers.  Make people want to stay, and maybe you can get some good PvP.  Keep the same club of 15-20 and it will remain as stale as I think you see it today.

[Fatal Intuition]

i pvp because i dont really have the time/effort to grind aliens constantly so why not attack some people and have some fun while im on the more i zero the better, i dont even put up pships or reserve recently so there is your chance and if i am nebed you still have counters on me so i dont see the problem personally,


also if you dont want people powering down on you there are a few very simple methods to minimize losses and give you a neb

they are called pships and if you fly 10 fleets over your main ships and make the first one the one with say 25% of your power you are golden, and if you need extra extra security fly say 15-20 even fleets so they cant use boarders to dodge the big one all of these are sucessfull and while these suggestions may seem extreme if your not going to be on every day they work wonders

[Jan`go Vhett]

Another thing that could be done.
When us pvp'ers get pm'ed from the guy you attack then reply calmly and see if you can help teach them how to better defend themselves.
I have helped a few guys out this way.

[Saturn 7]

Having 10 fleets consisting mainly of powers also has a similar effect of being hit by the pvp'rs...... it slows your progress as your having to spend alot of credits just to protect yourself.

[Renshaak]

i pvp because i dont really have the time/effort to grind aliens constantly so why not attack some people and have some fun while im on the more i zero the better, i dont even put up pships or reserve recently so there is your chance and if i am nebed you still have counters on me so i dont see the problem personally,

But that's not what the hardcore PvPers generally do--the ones who are taking out entire alliances 3-5 times a week.  Their victims get frustrated and quit before they learn the tricks.

Another thing that could be done.
When us pvp'ers get pm'ed from the guy you attack then reply calmly and see if you can help teach them how to better defend themselves.
I have helped a few guys out this way.

That's a good thing, Jan'go.  With the complexity of this game, I wonder if there's a way to improve the chances of noobs knowing their options.

[TNTTony]

Well Ren to be fair, everyone is expressing their opinion as to why they pvp. I'm sure we all know the issues with extremely hardcore pvp and the issues with the lack of players. It seems you are waiting for a pvper to say something horrible so you can "catch" him?

[Spayed]

if your refering to our alliance when you say hardcore pvpers taking out other alliancers 3-5 times a week.

we target alliances that have declared war on us. we may attack others, but generally we leave the noobs alone.

[The-Joe]

War is a tool, not a purpose.

In this game war does not give you control over strategic resources, so is mostly futile and useless. Some alliances, like Elites, LOESC, and others have always used wars to delay other people development.

In order for the game to become a real pvp game, there should be a clear goal to be achieved trough war, from the start. This goal may be rich resources, sectors control, or things like that.
I would deny any remote attack, and leave all battle to the galaxy battle, system fleets, system control, and alliance controlled devices that defend them.
PVP is way to simple to involve any real tactical skills. After getting above the minimal understanding of designing level, it's all about a fleet setup that may hurt the an enemy, and credits... Basically if you know the others fleet setup, and you have enough credits there is no way the defender can do anything.

I have tested on alts  , some techniques that allow going past nebula, and past pws, and attempt capturing any ships of the enemy, in whatever fleet setup they use, as long as the other has fleets up and is not online. However, due to the high cost in play-time turns and credits i never saw  any real use for them and dismissed them as expense without gain.

If there were a cash prize like for killing the most, or something similar, well, pvp would make sense.

[Spayed]

If there were a cash prize like for killing the most, or something similar, well, pvp would make sense.

and i would win

and these techniques, not caring to share with anybody.. i would be happy to put them into practise is they exist
i dont see anything as a waste of money.