Problems with the Bounty System

[Armageddon]

I have noticed some probelms for Bounties taken on me (10 times)

and when searching thugh the Forum found Sir Emi's reply on some some abuses on Bounty

SirEmi
Administrator

 Re: LOI Abusing the bounty system
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2007, 10:01:22 PM » 

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I was able to indentify all the illegal bounties, just looking trough the logs for the biggest bounties gained in the last 3 days showed me all the illegal bounties. I also recovered all the credits, and there were only 10 illegal bounties in total.

The bounty system will now be updated to determine bounty vs. fleet cost, rather than bounty vs. fleet power. That should solve the problem with using power ships.

i have been abused by exploiting this new Rule!!!
General rule was 20% of the Fleet power and looks like its been migrated from 20% FP to 20% Fleet cost.

So if someone just keeps destoying your first ship and keeps attacking only the First ship, it will result in total loss of all fleets... this is what happened to me...

Lammalord attacked me 10 times using Bounty and destroyed 20% FP with each attack... The Cost difference in them was 1.4 - 1.5X  so it did not removed the bounty.


This is the attack log. I am really surprised how the Bounty was still there even after my 40% power / 30%Cost was destoyed in 3rd attack alone.

Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:52
Lammalord(#4495)   Armageddon Elite Star Destroyer 702.1   1   -1   0   
Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:44
Lammalord(#4495)   Armageddon's Elite BattleCruiser 201.1   1   -1   0   
Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:43
Lammalord(#4495)   Armageddon's Elite BattleCruiser 301.1   1   -1   0   
Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:42
Lammalord(#4495)   Armageddon's Elite BattleCruiser 401.1   1   -1   0   
Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:39
Lammalord(#4495)   Armageddon Elite Star Destroyer 402.1   1   -1   0   
Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:39
Lammalord(#4495)   Armageddon Elite Star Destroyer 502.1    1   -1   0   
Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:39
Lammalord(#4495)   Armageddon Elite Star Destroyer 602.1   1   -1   0   
Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:39
Lammalord(#4495)   L.O.I. Doom's Day Defender   7.051.908   -7.051.908   0   
Battle   Fleet   Original   Battle   Remaining   14/08/2007 23:36
Lammalord(#4495)   L.O.I. Doom's Day Defender   2.740.851   -2.740.851   0   



i am not sure how one can attack 10 times, i thought the liit was 5 or 9 attacks during the day.

I have also mailed Sir Emi about this. but i wanted to start a conversation over here about this rule.

[Lightseeker_Eu]

Hmm, as soon as u lose 20% of your total power u escape in a nebula; the actual value of ships destroyed is just to determine the reward for the one who claims the bounty; it looks like a bug in this case

[thezerg]

I wouldnt call this abuse. I believe that you are bountiable even while in a neb so it wouldnt matter if he hit 20% each time or took out all your fleets

[lostedchylde]

the whole bounty / rep thing needs to be overhauled. obviously. the amount of rep lost per failed mission to the amount gained on successful mission is ludicrous. being bountied 10 times is ludicrous. losing ship after ship after ship. imagine if that happened to you. this is pathetic. if you get bountied once that should be the end of it. you should have your rep restored to at least 0 then and there, and you should be able to recover a positive rep by succeeding at say 5 missions for every failed mission. not 100 or 1000. i refuse to take bounties on people because most of the people aren't on the bounty list for doing bad things - ie attacking and raiding the carpies out of other players. they are there for trying big missions. and that doesn't deserve to be bountied. bounties should be reserved for people who deserve it. not for people who play hard. either that or bounties should be entirely placed by players on each other. anything but this abortion we have now. 


                                                                                         

[SirEmi]

The bounty works like this:

If you had let's say 1.000.000.000 credits bounty and a fleet that costs 2.000.000.000 credits.

Someone attacked you and you lost 1/10 fleet, 20% like you said then the bounty hunter gets 2.000.000.000/10 = 200.000.000 credits = your losses.
Your new bounty is now 1.000.000.000 - 200.000.000 = 800.000.000

Second attack destroyes another 200 mil worth of ships, your new bounty is 600 mil.

So you see, there is no difference between someone wiping out the whole fleet (100%) and getting 1 bil, or just attacking 5 times and getting 200 mil each time, exept maybe getting more experience...

I don't see any abuse yet but please comment if you disagree.

Thank you

[Armageddon]

SirEmi,

This is a problem as i see.. Not just i was attacked.. but in this problem is a guy (who has negative rep) can be attacked as many times as possible not just by a single guy but even by many guys and he cant do anything about it. So this can be used to get an unfair advantage..

I take the normal attack limit on a player is 5 attacks, why we cant have the same limit on Bounties??

Most of the players have negative rep because of the failed encounters... So this bounty thing need to have a limit. It is really unfair that a guy not in Bounty raneg can be attacked only 5 times but if the same guy goes into negative rep due to failed encunters, he can be attacked as many times till his entire fleet diappears...

I have supported lostedchylde on his sugegstion in the suggestion thread.. and also made a few suggestion to counter this problem... I hope you like them and some can be implemented.

[Lightseeker_Eu]

One should not be able to bounty someone who is in a nebula, no matter what, otherwise the whole thing will be exploited like in this case. Right now it's like being punished for playing at high level, the higher u get in power the bigger the bounty on you, ridiculous, it should be based on the amount of attacks and truce breaking someone does.

[Armageddon]

I completely agree with you Light

[Cameron07]

well even though im happy lamma nailed armageddon i dont think it should have been allowed to happen like that.. maybe a limit of 3 bounties per day on one commander and the rep does go down alot for failing a mission at a high power.. its alot harder to earn that rep back.. maybe if there was alot more positive rep gave to players at high levels for completing higher encounters

[Armageddon]

Thanks Cameron for your support..    I know we had difference earlier this round...

Suggestions on this problems can be given in Suggestions thread started by lostedchylde...

I have also explained there, how this system can be exploited to a great extent.... which is very unfair...

Sir Emi really need to think something about this...

Link to that thread
http://forum.spaceo.net/index.php/topic,2963.0.html

[Seither]

The bounty system has always been a problem for one main reason: Anyone can attack you, no matter the power difference. And yes, being attacked 1o times, or more as I've had done before does suck. However, I do not think making it impossible to bounty someone in a neb is right, as nebulas are already exploited too much, and 9 times out of 10, the person you want to hit, via couner or oterwise, is in a nebula and too low in power for you to hit. Bounties give you that chance. Now, I have a suggestion to fix this/take it more fair, and I'll post it in the other thread too. This is basically what you do. You allow 5 clean attacks bountywise. Now, after 5 attacks, like the nebula, you enter something refered to as "Space Distortion". from that point on, if that commander bounties you again within 24 hours, they have a 50% chance of losing their STRONGEST ship. Meaning attacking someone risks you losing  your best ship, wither it is reserved or not, to prevent people from reserving better ships so they don't lose them.

[thezerg]

The space distortion thing is a little much. Maybe lowing stats or something might work better

[Cameron07]

i say people should get to attempt 3 bounties per player per day... and i mean that you should only be able to bounty one person 3 times in a day, and if someone else bounties them they should only get 3 times... and so on..

[Seither]

Space Distortion was a rough idea, extreme yes, but you bet your buns people will think twice before attacking.

[Lammalord]

Armageddon please dont use quotes from things completly different and make it seem as if your a victum of the same type of stuff you have to read into the type of abuse used via the galaxy in order to claim it justifys your point.

I also recovered all the credits, and there were only 10 illegal bounties in total.

this is reffering to emi TAKING money from the LOI members not giveing it back. what LOI did was power ship up, attack someone and fail (droping your rep massivly) then have the other guy counter and fail (droping rep even more) then they would get rediculously high bounty (a 10 quad bounty costing them 10 tril in ships..) then bounty each other and kill cheep powerships to achive the full reward of the bounty..

of course its been stop but pleace notice, yes it was abuse of the bounty system but in no way or form the same abuse as what you claimed i did in the attacks.

if you had to compare both incidents and only deam one as abuse what would you choose? the one were some guy spent 10 tril on powerships to gain 10 quad off a illegal bounty? or a guy useing a method of bountying were if you fail you can take another attempt.. one took some time to figure out, allaince corperation to complete, and patience with several member sneeking around attacks.. while another another is a simple fact of failing..  not much skill needed to figure out if you fail a bounty you can try again.