Mission Loss??

[Hellsword]

Fleet Name     # of Units     Attack     Defence     Hitpoints
CRAZY    6300    139900    14464    97625
JACKEL    9605    178753    18388    143069
Anaconda MK I 1    135639    6021    0    53240
Geinosian Fighter 1    188959    15989    0    18150


Assault result


Unidentified Fleet(#)'s 6300 CRAZY are destroyed during battle.
Unidentified Fleet(#)'s 9605 JACKEL are destroyed during battle.
Unidentified Fleet(#)'s 20650 Anaconda MK I 1 are destroyed during battle.
Unidentified Fleet(#)'s 80062 Geinosian Fighter 1 are destroyed during battle.
You attacked Unidentified Fleet(#)'s fleet and mothership from deep space.
You destroyed Unidentified Fleet(#)'s 116617 ships and lost 0/4 ships.
Your attack failed and achieved nothing.
You inflicted insufficient damage on Unidentified Fleet(#).
(+240 Exp)


well i killed over 50% (wiped top 2/4 fleets) but lost teh missions :S whats up with that?

[Soppe]

its so normal its scary. the 2 lower fleets is worth much more then the top ones =)
if u got a bad day, up to half of the missions u shouldve won while engaging swarmers, ends up with losing instead cause of this.

[ars68]

I believe it is like this, you will have to bear with me, it is a little rough, but here goes:

before we had a problem with a near invincible ship called tinyman, where making the ship as tiny as possible in space, but making it cost in the millions each, you would have an extremely costly, but extremely powerful swarmer for like 1/3 the power of something comparable.

so to help with missions, Emi set up a limit on missions where the fleet can only cost so much, so your mission actually may look something like this:

(cost limit of say, 20 mil, and a total power of 5 mil)
fleet 1: power: 500k cost: 20 mil
fleet 2: power: 750k cost: 20 mil
fleet 3: power: 2.75M cost: 7 Mil
fleet 4: power: 1.50M cost: 4 Mil

under normal circumstances, the first 2 fleets would then have gone on to a very large number of ships until it came to the power needed, but it hit the cost limit first, and so stopped there, ending up making the 3rd and 4th fleets power much more.

so you see, in a way, the reason you failed, very well maybe the reason you have any ships left at all.

[Hellsword]

o yeah i get this ars i just thoguht there was something where it after doing this switched the most powerful fleets to the top :S

[bigbroni]

yeah would be really good if fleets would be truely sorted by real power - I hate to loose ships in missions in 3rd or 4th of my fleets - even if I use 4x same ships that somethimes happens :-(

[Soppe]

yeah it would be cooler if power was the only thing counting when engaging others on a mission.

[Seither]

it should arrange it by power, so we should demand sir emi figure out how to make it do that.

[Hellsword]

yes it definityly should... another 6/8 fleets wiped adn i lose... its messed up :S

[Lammalord]

the first 2 fleets are tiny man designs expensive ships with almost no power, so they mean just about nothing in a mission when you kill them

[SirEmi]

The fleets are actually determined like this:

e.g.: A mission requires 20 mil cr and 10 mil fleet power:
1-10 fleets appear this is X = 5

5/10 => 5 fleets around 2 mil FP each

5 fleets are taken out an resupplied until they reach the fleet power of 2 mil
Cost is calculated and if at some point it reaches 20 mil, the sequence stops, so if the first fleet happenes to be tiny man and maxes credits available, you only get that. If tiny is in 2,3,4 position and maxes cost, 3,4,5 will not appear anymore

So, the fleets you meet in mission are actually same power level, as power is distributed evenly, the order really does not matter

[ars68]

ok...  then why is it that a couple times I would do a missions, kill the 1st fleet, 2nd fleet, AND 3rd fleet COMPLETELY, then not even damage the 4th fleet, and that is all there was, just 4 fleets.  yay, I killed 3/4 of all the enemy fleets   I go down to mission result and...  mission failed.  insufficent damage.  now, I haven't noticed it actually happen anytime soon this round, but then again, I barely even let the battle page even load, let alone look at it, the only time I even notice I lost a ship is when I go to next mission and go... oh, I have one less ship then I did before.  lol.  that, and I use like 4-6 fleets norm on a mission, so any tinymen fleets, I go beyond them and kill the real fleets to.

so ya, I haven't noticed it myself yet, but that means nothing.  I say this though, in case this problem is already fixed?  because if nothing was ever done about it, I HAVE seen it happen before, quite literally, first 3 fleets completely wiped out, yet 4th fleet alone keeps me from finishing it.

anyway, hoping this will clear it up, as when you said it, I couldn't tell if you were saying you just did that, or if it has always been that way.  and if has always been that way...  then I don't know.

so you are saying the fleet power for a fleet is constant, even if the fleets that are making them up is incomplete?  I am saying, if the fleet is registered as worth 5 mil fp, but the ships are only worth 1 mil fp,  and you destroy 1 mil fp worth, what happens to the other 4 mil fp?  is it possible that the computer registers that even though there are no ships left, that the enemy fleet still has 4 mil fleet power left in it?  if so, that could DEFENITELY explain it, and would also mean there was no chance to even finish succesfully that kind of mission, as no matter what, it would still have more fleet power in it.  unless...  you got an enemy armada destroyed signal...  then I don't know WHAT would happen...  would be strange though, lol:

enemy fleet armada destroyed
mission failed, insufficent damage. 

 


hmmm...  planet underconstruction?  lol

[FTP]

Past round I did have had a enemy armada destroyed

You inflicted insufficient damage.

[ars68]

 
hmmmm....

then it would appear that I am right, when a fleet stops short of it's power amount, because of cost, the power never reached by the ships themselves are impossible to wipe out.  like so:

e.g.: A mission requires 20 mil cr and 10 mil fleet power:
1-10 fleets appear this is X = 5

5/10 => 5 fleets around 2 mil FP each

5 fleets are taken out an resupplied until they reach the fleet power of 2 mil
Cost is calculated and if at some point it reaches 20 mil, the sequence stops, so if the first fleet happenes to be tiny man and maxes credits available, you only get that. If tiny is in 2,3,4 position and maxes cost, 3,4,5 will not appear anymore

going of of this same example, if the first fleet reaches the 20 mil credit limit, before it reaches the 5 mil power, the fleet power WILL be right for the fleet, the fleet WILL be worth 5 mil, the problem, however is this:
fleet 1 loses 200 ships worth 1 mil fleet power, remaining fleet power will be 5 mil minus the 1 mil destroyed, and so there is still 4 mil fleet power left in that fleet, even though there are no ships left.

and so I stand corrected, when there is such a huge difference like that, it will be impossible to win that mission, even if you completely zero the entire enemy armada.  you will still have, as FTP said, insufficent damage.

Sir E, care to prove me wrong?  or if I'm right, care to fix it?  somewhere there will have to be a check to see just how much fleet power there really is still left, maybe once the battle is finished, the computer will go back through, and calculate fleet power based ont he ships left and ships destroyed:
fleet 1: 1000 ships worth 1000fp each, all destroyed
fleet 2: 1000 ships worth 1000fp each, all destroyed
fleet 2: 10000 ships worth 500 each, half destroyed
so it would go like this:
fleet 1: fp went from 1000000 to 0
fleet 2: fp went from 1000000 to 0
fleet 3: fp went from 5000000 to 2500000
so total of 7000000 to 2500000 or 0.64% destroyed

as it stands now, the above example would instead look like this:
fleet 1: fp went from 5000000 to 4000000
fleet 2: fp went from 5000000 to 4000000
fleet 3: fp went from 5000000 to 2500000
so total of 15000000 to 10500000 or 0.3%  (note, this is exact same battle example!  any less destroyed and it would have failed for ANYONE, but some battles require up to 50% destroyed, as you know)

this way, it will bypass the 'fake fleet power' generated everytime the fleets hit the cost limit.
ok, I suppose easier way of saying it, is recalculate the total fleet power of the enemy armada, then figure in how much fleet power was lost.

anyway, what do you think?  and did this clear it up for anyone else?

another way may be to change fp lost, to where when so many ships are lost in that fleet, that much of a % is lost to the fp.  that way when a fleet has 5 mil fp, and the fleet loses 5 out of 10 ships, each worth 1k fp, it will instead subtract 50% of the total fp, not the total fp of all ships lost.  that would also do it.

[SirEmi]

Ars, the system will conpute the total fleet power you battle while cost calculating, resulting a total that is compared to the destroyed power, if you destroy 1 mil, and 5 mil was spawned, that's 1/5 => 20%. If the cost calc stops more fleets from spawning, the total fleet power increment will also stop counting.

what you are describing is a possible bug that was before the cost calculator was introduced...

[ars68]

lol, oh, ok.  when you explained it before, it didn't sound like that, lol.  ok, still, must be a bug somewhere.