H&R and SG battle tactics

[Lammalord]

no one would want to do this.. looks like its to powerful or something

[ars68]

well, H&R idea IS to over-powered, I'll even (and am now again) admitting that.  imagine sending in 1 tril yellow jackets on the H&R mission, knowing not a one will get destroyed, but possibly wiping out the entire enemy armada.  probably create havoc on missions and encounters as well.

but the SG idea is not actually as powerful as you say, it is a 2-edged sword of sorts, it gives you more then 1 round to 'finish off the enemy' but it also gives them the chance to do the same. 

hp boat does 0 damage to swarmers
swarmers does 1/4 total damage to hp boat

normally, it would end there, but if it continued, the hp boat would lose horribly, this would also put more emphasis on defense (as far as I can tell, defense would have to work 5+ times to be as effective as just going with hp, this giving it it's chance to subtract damage 5+ times)

also... you might have more of a point on the gun turret thing then you may think...  looks like I will be putting up another suggestion, lol. (though probably to super-complicated to actually be put in, but meh, probably not as much as that galaxy project and council  )

[Demitrious Ducas]

Ars you have alot of good ideas here and in your other threads like Turrets/ Weapons and Ship classes. I think you should compile all of them into a single thread.

Here is something I posted about similar issues in another thread...

I don't want an overly complex system, I liked the simple combat system as it exists, but it's lacking in depth to handle issues outside of normal war (pitting player#1's best ships vs. player#2's best ships and rolling the dice)...

For example the issue with infinate scouting from another thread.

The idea here is that infinite scouting isn't sporting when used to make real attacks without the resulting counters, most people would consider this bad form since it is used against a player...

But, a similar case I have made is using decoy ships in missions, it works, it is allowed by the rules, but it just isn't in the spirit of honorable hunting... most people said this shouldn't be fixed or isn't an issue when I made a post about it because it is only against the computer fleets.

My point in both issues is that, the lack of sportsmanship doesn't come from the target it has to come from within yourself for it to mean anything. But, in the hardnosed edge of gamming there is almost no honor among player, everyone is out for themselves or group and will do or try nearly anything to get an advantage. I think this is why a most advanced, but not overly complex, combat tactic system is needed, to disuade players from using loopholes to an advantage not intended by the rules.

I REALLY enjoyed the pen and paper space games of the 70's and 80's many of them were simple formula combat with dice to find a bit of random factor, but MOST of them had advanced combat tactics and options to choose that made that combat interesting and made the outcome based on more than just 3 simple fleet propeties (Atk, Def, HP). The ship design and componant design portion of this game kicks ass it is nearly infinately variable and can be used to make a multitude of ships with different purposes. SO uses such cool ships in a combat system that just falls short of the high mark set by the ship design portion of the game.

This is more evident because in most cases, it is an active player attacking an inactive/ off-line player, all the options and output go to the attacker, the player off-line gets no choice of tactics (only which ships to leave out) and get a very minimal combat report that lacks nearly any useful information about the attacker that could be used to make a counter attack. Scouting to gain ship/ fleet make-up for the defender is then essential when they get back on-line to find the've been attacked. The defender should atleast get the same attack report the attacker sees.

Then there are the hit and run issues where it isn't even possible to bring most or any of your real combat ships to make a counter attack since the initial attacker put them into reserve before logging and has much reduce total power So as a result you get a game full of power ship blasting back and forth, back and forth without doing any real damage to either side except for a few unexpected losses or unprepared for defenders... it just can't hold the interest of most people and they end up leaving the game, playing alts, greefing others, or trying to exploit every possible loophole or bug hoping not to get caught.

[Iamcatfu]

I still like the stand ground idea, hit and run is pretty much what happens now (minus the overpower), but what about a "grapple" strategy.  Kinda like a cross between SG and Board, they close to transport range, and battle it out with big guns shooting each other, and marines fighting it out inside, but the trick is that the person you're attacking can have more marines and take some of your ships if you're not careful.

[SirEmi]

I dont know if anybody knows this, but when I designed the boarding system, it was like that, the marines fought each other untill one fleet was captured, the attacker or the defender. Was cool, but it just made people upset in the end... losing way too many fleets for their taste.

[ars68]

really? wow...  actually, it would seem a pain to lose some bil - tril - quad worth of ships simply due to not having enough marines, lol.  although right now, this would put a very quick end to someone using a boarding strategy early on, and hits the wrong person...

anyway, ya, this was before I joined, I had no idea, lol.