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Author Topic: Supership Help  (Read 24900 times)
Lucario619
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« Reply #60 on: July 27, 2007, 05:45:45 AM »

That info is useful but what sort of wepons should i put on a super ship? confused
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thezerg
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« Reply #61 on: July 27, 2007, 12:50:38 PM »

Big ones  laugh

But here is something else you might find helpful

http://cotaspaceo.17.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=7
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a helpful website for noobs ~ http://cotaspaceo.17.forumer.com/
Omnitrex
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« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2008, 12:40:17 AM »

This thread would have been a bit more useful to me a week ago... but I did figure most of this out on my own.

Something that wasn't really said here that I think should be shared though is that there is a balance between the ship cost and the upgrade costs.

I could design a ship with 100 space and put 30 million $ worth of upgrades on it and design another ship with 100,000 space and put 30$ worth of upgrades on it and get the same total power and cost of between the 2 ships.

I had a supership that had 300,000 space and I put 360 million worth of upgrades on it and I still had 240,000 space left on it.  By itself it withstood attacks from fleets that had 15x it's own total power.  I think it was worth the purchase.  If I were to upgrade 4 more times, the cost would be a couple billion to build, but a single ship would be nearly indestructable and would most certainly outlast its warranty.  I think an investment in costly ships would have a favorable return when it leaves a trail of enemy debris worth 15x it's own cost.

What I mean to say is that if a billion dollar ship that has only 300,000 space lasts a long time where your swarmers have to be replaced every time you attack or have been attacked, you may end up spending more to replenish your swarmers than you do to replenish your supership.
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Cameron07
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« Reply #63 on: July 23, 2008, 02:00:59 AM »

hmm you should never have extra space on a ship
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Chronos
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« Reply #64 on: July 23, 2008, 04:16:04 AM »

Hmm, I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding you, but I believe I understand the gist of it.

First of all, having extra space does you absolutely no good. It just sits there, making no contribution, costing credits.

As for ship-to-upgrade costs, the reason that supership upgrades have almost nil space and credit requirements is simple math. Without going into detail, your credits end up being worth significantly more if you turn it into space and then use that space rather than the credits directly. And your space ends up being worth significantly more if you turn that space into energy and then use that energy rather than the space directly.

It has all been optimized mathematically. Each component type has its own set space value, around 8-ish, which strikes a balance with its diminishing return. After that, all space should be sent to the powercore and converted to power. Direct credits are the least effective and should be minimized whenever possible.

Hum, my formulae should be lying around here somewhere.

As for swarmers, most people go with superships because they tend to last longer. But one must also take into consideration defense-based swarmers. Defense is calculated basically on a per-fleet basis, rather than per-ship.
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Omnitrex
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« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2008, 05:46:46 PM »

@Cameron07,  I know extra space does no good, it's just that I can't exactly afford putting more of those upgrades on it.

The point I was trying to make was that if you have expensive upgrades, then that means they are superior for they're size and therefore you can put an equal amount of power in a smaller ship as a large ship and get the same cost.

Say I have a weapon with 150 mil attack power and has 1000 weight and 1000 energy costs.  It would cost me several million to use the upgrade, but I can fit it onto a very small ship.

Or

I can have a weapon with 150 mil attack power and corresponding weight/energy to trim the cost down to 2 and fit it onto a much larger ship.

A lot of you guys say to put the weight at 8 and then change the energy to cut the cost down to 2-3, but that means in order to have a powercore that generates enough energy to support everything, the only thing you can do to cut the cost down is to adjust the weight.  So the better your upgrades are, the more energy they need, and the more space your powercore needs = larger ship and higher cost for the ship.

If you have a set weight and energy value that is generic to all upgrades, then you can fit more upgrades onto a ship because the powercore is much smaller = small ship with high upgrade costs.  If tweaked correctly, the smaller ship will cost the same as the large ship, but have better upgrades.
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Cameron07
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« Reply #66 on: July 23, 2008, 09:21:59 PM »

but see thats where your wrong, you cant use 50 updrages that cost more but require less powercore space and make a better ship than doing it the way i am... it just doesnt work, you end up using bad upgrades and making a expensive ship thats not very good at all
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« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2008, 11:16:55 PM »

If tweaked correctly, the smaller ship will cost the same as the large ship, but have better upgrades.

Sad to say, but that is not true. I have read everything you wrote, and that would not make the ship any better. Yes, using energy as your main driving force does make your ship larger, but I guarantee that it will ultimately still cost you less than the alternative.

This is not an educated guess, Omnitrex. The math has been done time, time, and again. The weight provided by the hull will always be cheaper than paying for the components directly when dealing with superships. Math does not lie.
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Cameron07
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« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2008, 01:59:02 AM »

except when math says 1+1=3
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Omnitrex
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« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2008, 02:52:00 PM »

except when math says 1+1=3

lmao
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Cameron07
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« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2008, 04:45:18 PM »

but seriously the way your designing is highly inefficient
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« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2008, 12:16:13 AM »

You've hit that middle ground between tiny man and super ship, omnitrex.

The advantage of the tiny man is that it's expensive upgrades but small ship space make it have lower fleet power with bigger stats. Unfortunately, this comes at the price of efficiency. Tiny Men are MUCH more expensive than an equivalent strength supership, but they are useful when you want very low power, as for attacking someone smaller than you, or making someone attack you because they think you are smaller and weaker than you really are. Go with normal supers for missions, and use the tiny men as saboteurs when you need them.
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