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I'm trying to design a medeocre or better supership and I just wanted some advice.

1. How big is the average (or suggested) supership?
2. What range  of hitpoints should I be aiming for?
3. What's a good example of a non pathetic (yet reachable) attack power? And,
4. What special stuff would be a good idea to add?

If some people could answer a few of these questions for me, that'd really help me out. I'd try answering these questions on my own, but I literaly (truely, completely, so totaly, etc.) can not tell a good design from an attempted yet considerably bad design. :sweat

Oh, and just to preempt you commercial ship designers. I do not have, nor can I afford, a Gold Account, 'kay?  :)

well that depends on whom you ask.  Because what I call escorts many others call super ships.  So that is a matter of opinion.  Myself, Ronald, WoW, Lightseeker, are some of the best big ship designers, and almost forgot Lunarnova is now in the business of building super ships.
Ars Nightguard are some of the better swarmer designers, along with Nicholos whom is now in basic training.
there are others as well but those are the best ones I know of and there are some up and commers out there as well.  get a gold account and purchase a couple of my ships you will see then

*Ahem*


Anyways, I'm just looking for something bigger than a swarmer, pretty much.

message me in game I will give you a taste in your price range

Yay! Thanks.

actually, frank, I am starting to get the hang of superships now as well, especially after swarmers got majorly jipped begginning of the round. 

anyway, chronos, you need to understand something, I feel (though not all, they like to make it's defenition and opinion) a supership can more or less be defined as "a ship that does not rely on swarm bonus"  and swarm bonus really stops helping out around 100k~200k ish space, so this could be a 1 million space cruiser, or a 1 trillion space deathstar. 

however, there are certain things you can do that help:
1: you can't rely on swarm bonus to give your ships higher stats then what they show.  you need to start pumping out ABS and accuracy, but not to much, remember, they make prices go up exponentially
2: don't bother with defense unless you are planning on buying a LOT of them with high crew level.  go for straight out HP instead. I tend to add on a LITTLE defense, to help with facing multiple fleets, but this is not even reall 1% of it's hp.
3: don't forget computers.  they can help raise your accuracy even higher.
4: use all your space in powercore.  trust us on this one, it helps a lot.  but remember, don't just put 1 space on everything else. space cost goes up exponentially so far down.
5: try to keep individual system cost down. think of it as "discounts" any credits you go through energy is discounted, as is space.  but costs for the systems yourself are given with "no discount" this means BELOW 1000 credits. remember, if the cost is less then 1, it jumps back to 1000 price.
6: keep trying.  you'll get the hang of it. these are just the majority of the "designing pitfalls"

Thanks! That's really helpful.

Dang ars68! Your giving away all the good info... Save that sweet lovin info for alliance mates  :P

:stupid:

ducas, he didn't say HALF of what he knows!

ya, there is PLENTY after that to get really good ships.  as I said, those where just the more notorius "designing pitfalls" that can automatically make an otherwise good ship, horrible.  but there is MUCH MUCH more to it then that.

Regardless of whatever, it's still really good advice, compared to what I know. :sweat

i can tell you some other information on the clan page Chronos

i had no idea people made swarmers up in to 100k space :atention:
im only just now dabbling in them, i always lost me Cruisers and Deathstars to easily during raids.

Also
Im thinking about making a balance. A few hundred cruisers and thousands of swarmers. any input on this idead

ya, 100k space is REALLY pushing it.  normally, a swarmer may be from 10k to 50k space.  but everyone else takes "swarmers" as any ship you have many of in a single fleet."

yes I have used 1 million ton ships as swarmers and so have a few other commanders in other rounds, that is why you will see some of the big ships with lower attack and hitpoints but defense ~ = attack and defense

so would mixing fleets be wise or not

Hmm, it could be a good idea, if your superships have the high power. They could tank, maybe?

ya, frank, that is because you are using them for the added collection of defense.  would you use the 1 mil space ships for there swarm bonus?  I doubt you would.  what you are talking about is more like superships, you are just using many of them. a fleet of superships.  the really big lone ships, normally the really good ones, are more HP boats, not even considered superships.  I don't think a ship classification changes just because the person using it has changed in ranking and power.  a giant looks at an ant, and a person shrunk to the size of a dot looks at an ant, it is STILL an ant.  see my point?  you are using the term "swarmers" as in you have many of them.  I am saying "swarmers" as in they make use of swarm bonus, not necessarily having many of them.

the difference between supserships and swarmers?

superships use high ABS and ACC to get the most out of their stats, since ABS and ACC are NOT taken into account for fleet power

swarmers use swarm bonus that raises their base stats higher then what the fleet power takes into account.

I just thought a more defenite definition of the term "supership" would help in many ways.

I would agree with that assesment ars.

Hmm, maby "A ship that focuses more on strength of the individual, then strength of numbers.", could be an alright definition, maby?

(Edit) Not entirely specific though.

We go by size to define ship types, so even a ship with 1 attack and 0 everything else could be a super ship if it is in the right size, just a really bad ship.

And Chronos, I hate to do this, but I'm going to request you take the amazon link out of your signature. It's advertisement for a store, and false advertisement as well, since you're saying it is free. I can't MAKE you do it, since it isn't exactly against ToS, but at least make it obvious that it isn't free stuff, ok?

    Ah....Superships. I used to think Borgs(round 1 winner) ss was unbeatable but then I created the Avenger base design(round 2) and it is still the best, imho.
    Anyway totaly max out space and energy. Also dont buy armor(use special) and dont buy troop pods. Troop pods take more space than they're worth and you get more marines based on the size of your ship. mine held hundreds of billions.

Ok!

And the Amazon thing, it was a joke. You ever see those Free* stuff adds, but they weren't completely free? I was just playing off of that, only it wasn't Free*, it was Free*†‡‡*†*††‡ and led to Amazon.com, which was quite the opposite of free. Just a joke making fun of those ad peoples.

I know, but of course, there will be someone who comes along. sees it, think you meane it, and then get pissed and blame SO for it saying we were falsely advertising (or something like that). Just trying to look out for us.

thy topic is el stickied!

Ya, I guess your right.

Anywho, WOOOT! I got un papel de la sticky.

yes you did. It's helpful enough, and now has a sister sticky, swarmer help!

Okay, I got another question.

What fraction of my energy should I devote to attack if I'm trying to make a good offensive supership?

Is 1/2 good? Or should I raise it to 2/3?

well, you should keep it in ratio to your HP and Defense, but I would say at the utmost extreme, have a ration of 2 HP to 3 attack, anymore and you really start taking stats to much of an extreme for anything other then PvP battles.

Okay, thanks! ^_^

Depends though. I spent 2/3 of my energy on HP, but that's cause the swarm bonus is scarier to us smaller people.

UM, one of my better powerships has 26200+ space. hi

Your powership only has 26.200 space? I would've thought that'd be a swarmer. :-\

powerships are a type of swarmer though Chronos. Superships are what you are thinking of, lol.

Oh... I just woke up, work with me. ^_^"

My powership's 100 space. I got lazy and made it with 25 systems instead of 50 systems though. It's not that much of a cost difference for my nebs currently, so it's not worth my time as I am probably going to have to totaly revamp it anyways.

guide to super ships from the borg

example one
weight
hull is 1000000
powercore   999000 all but 1000 energy (tip fost cost do weight x400 and always come up at 13.200
sheild 300 (3 shields using 100 energy ea)
computer 200 (2 shield 100 energy on ea)
special 400
weapon 100

energy dist
shield depends just get 60-70% abs on ships 10B+ and 40-60% on 10B or less
computer just get enough for the ammount of acu you dont want to spen on waepon i usualy do 2 20% to get 30% on the computer
special 70% of the remaining
weapon 30% of the remain

hers the design i made with this  tip
Attack     Defence     Hitpoints     Crew Level
   36382500          0          87150000          Rookie    
Attack accuracy    Absorb Power    SP Power    AP Power
   71 %            44%            00%            00%

and it costs 170m itake a little from its stats as i have a few command points in everything about 5-7% in all shown and 2% in def but that doesnt matter lol

Actually, each component has as certain weight where it's no longer better the energy. You just set each component to that, and the rest of the weight goes to energy. I know those weights, of course. :P

i know em too i just like that it looks better and 500 energy isnt much of a diference

Ya, but you got to watch out, because it can make a difference.

on a BB 500 energy is like 1m credits and that isnt much of a deal

yes, but with somethings, such a small difference is a lot more credits.

Is there any use of def in superships? Ie. in missions where there might be up to 10 fleets vs 1-2 superships?

No.

The only time defense really matters is when you will have more then 1 ship per fleet, as it means your enemies will have to go through all your ships combined defense before they can destroy 1 ship. Otherwise it is just a waste of credits.

Man, now I got to revamp all of my old designs 0o.. not that they were horrible, but I'm certain I can wring more abs out of my shields now.
Thanks for the tips :12:

no problem.

Pardon me if I'm being crosseyed :2:, but don't you mean weight not energy?  You addressed energy later in the post.

I think he means all but a thousand hull goes to energy.

1000 hull?  isn't that to much???  lol, how much do I personally use aside from powercore?
 :harhar: I'm not telling  :harhar:

I make sure my ship's stats fit together seamlessly. If my components need this much space, that's how much I leave out.

Yea, first thing I do, figure out how many shields and computers I want, figure out how much space that will take, and add in the space for special and weapon.  Then I subtract that from my total size, and that's how much space goes to powercore.

On another note, defense is useful on a supership.  Since 50 hp = 1 defense for cost, and 1 defense = 10 hp (approximately...I've seen a lot of times where it blocks a lot less than 10 hp per defense...I have 1 bill hp worth of defense on one of my ships, but sometimes, a ship with about 1 bill of attack does 100 mill damage), if your ship is facing 5 or more fleets, it is worth it.  Otherwise, it is not.  If you have 1 and only 1 ship, look into some defense.  If you have 2, or 3 fleets, defense may not be worth it, and even then, only to the lead fleet.
I think also that defense doesn't count towards power, or perhaps just not as much.  Can anyone verify this as true or untrue?  What makes me think this, is that I made a ship with all hp.  Later, I gave it some defense, and the power went down.  If this is indeed how it works, a lot of defense may help ships survive better in missions by keeping the power low.

well, I beleive in a way, yes, if I remember correctly, as far as attack, defense and HP goes, power is like attack/100+defense/100+HP/100 so in a way, no, HP and defense gives off exactly the same amount, or how much it is divided by 100.  however, keeping to the same cost, when you turn HP into defense, it is 50 HP to 1 defense, so say we are talking about 50000 HP.  50000 HP would 'cost' 500000 Credits, and give off 500 power.  however, 500000 credits worth of defense is only 1000, and since how power is calculated for defense is the same for HP, that would only give off 10 power.  see what I am saying?

Aaaaaaaaaaaa...................... i can't understand anything ... you people are talking about some numbers ... but what this numbers meen ??? can someone post a simple plan of suppership ...

can someone explain this to me ... haw to design my systems ... ARMOUR systems: Weight, Hitpoints ... or ... WEAPON systems: Weight, Energy Req, ACU Bonus, Attack ... i don't get it at all ... pleace : ( ...

Read the guide, it will help you.

What need to be tne proportion between Attack and Hitpoints ... for a SupperShip ...

Well, near even seems to be a good choice.

where do i find out about the swarm bonus?

Thats a Really good question and I think Its one of parity.

I really dont know the answer as I started two days ago and all the communications on the forum about, well, formulas, and asking for formulas and stuff; they just don't communicate well with a right brainer.

My personal opinion though, is, multiple fleets are great!

I just wish I could afford some lol.

A mixed fleet would let you send out a scout ship, and match your following fleet according to what you see. Off the charts att or def or hp means larger hulls so you know they are smaller. You can kinda figure it out.

And then look at total rating vs number of ships vs zeroes around them.

well I design ships and refit ships all the time.  I just figure out how much I want to spend and then go from there.  I have hundreds of designs of each system I can pull from to fit my needs.  and I just use what I have on hand or do a complete refit.  larger ships for the most part use 99%+ hull space to power core

Note this is just a starting point

This ship design will give you a 3/2 hp/atk ratio by energy after comps and shields

hull:decide hull size

core:hull w subtract 104 = core w (for 6 comps subtract 122w)
         core w multiplied by 400 minus 5279 = en
         (w * 400) - 5297 = en
         if it doesn't have a single digit price change the number that is second     

         from right to dial it in

install comps and shields
         Shield(x2):8w 69912899en 33%abs 3cr
         Shield(x2):8w 34960366en 32%abs 2cr
         Shield(x2):8w 17484099en 31%abs 3cr
         Comp(x4):9w 5468499en 15%acu 3cr
         
weapon:take remaining en divide by 5 multiply by 2 = weapon en
          make 55acu divide weapon en by 2 = first attack view weapon
          take cost divide by 10 subtract first attack = final attack
             
           w 10
           acu 55%
           (ren / 5) * 2 = weapon en
           weapon en / 2 = first attack             
           view weapon
           (cost / 10) - first attack = final attack
           add weapon to ship before next step

special:take remaining en multiply by .3 subtract 1199 = hp

              w 10
              (ren * .3) - 1199 = hp

That info is useful but what sort of wepons should i put on a super ship? :confused:

Big ones  :))

But here is something else you might find helpful

http://cotaspaceo.17.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=7

This thread would have been a bit more useful to me a week ago... but I did figure most of this out on my own.

Something that wasn't really said here that I think should be shared though is that there is a balance between the ship cost and the upgrade costs.

I could design a ship with 100 space and put 30 million $ worth of upgrades on it and design another ship with 100,000 space and put 30$ worth of upgrades on it and get the same total power and cost of between the 2 ships.

I had a supership that had 300,000 space and I put 360 million worth of upgrades on it and I still had 240,000 space left on it.  By itself it withstood attacks from fleets that had 15x it's own total power.  I think it was worth the purchase.  If I were to upgrade 4 more times, the cost would be a couple billion to build, but a single ship would be nearly indestructable and would most certainly outlast its warranty.  I think an investment in costly ships would have a favorable return when it leaves a trail of enemy debris worth 15x it's own cost.

What I mean to say is that if a billion dollar ship that has only 300,000 space lasts a long time where your swarmers have to be replaced every time you attack or have been attacked, you may end up spending more to replenish your swarmers than you do to replenish your supership.

hmm you should never have extra space on a ship

Hmm, I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding you, but I believe I understand the gist of it.

First of all, having extra space does you absolutely no good. It just sits there, making no contribution, costing credits.

As for ship-to-upgrade costs, the reason that supership upgrades have almost nil space and credit requirements is simple math. Without going into detail, your credits end up being worth significantly more if you turn it into space and then use that space rather than the credits directly. And your space ends up being worth significantly more if you turn that space into energy and then use that energy rather than the space directly.

It has all been optimized mathematically. Each component type has its own set space value, around 8-ish, which strikes a balance with its diminishing return. After that, all space should be sent to the powercore and converted to power. Direct credits are the least effective and should be minimized whenever possible.

Hum, my formulae should be lying around here somewhere.

As for swarmers, most people go with superships because they tend to last longer. But one must also take into consideration defense-based swarmers. Defense is calculated basically on a per-fleet basis, rather than per-ship.

@Cameron07,  I know extra space does no good, it's just that I can't exactly afford putting more of those upgrades on it.

The point I was trying to make was that if you have expensive upgrades, then that means they are superior for they're size and therefore you can put an equal amount of power in a smaller ship as a large ship and get the same cost.

Say I have a weapon with 150 mil attack power and has 1000 weight and 1000 energy costs.  It would cost me several million to use the upgrade, but I can fit it onto a very small ship.

Or

I can have a weapon with 150 mil attack power and corresponding weight/energy to trim the cost down to 2 and fit it onto a much larger ship.

A lot of you guys say to put the weight at 8 and then change the energy to cut the cost down to 2-3, but that means in order to have a powercore that generates enough energy to support everything, the only thing you can do to cut the cost down is to adjust the weight.  So the better your upgrades are, the more energy they need, and the more space your powercore needs = larger ship and higher cost for the ship.

If you have a set weight and energy value that is generic to all upgrades, then you can fit more upgrades onto a ship because the powercore is much smaller = small ship with high upgrade costs.  If tweaked correctly, the smaller ship will cost the same as the large ship, but have better upgrades.

but see thats where your wrong, you cant use 50 updrages that cost more but require less powercore space and make a better ship than doing it the way i am... it just doesnt work, you end up using bad upgrades and making a expensive ship thats not very good at all

Sad to say, but that is not true. I have read everything you wrote, and that would not make the ship any better. Yes, using energy as your main driving force does make your ship larger, but I guarantee that it will ultimately still cost you less than the alternative.

This is not an educated guess, Omnitrex. The math has been done time, time, and again. The weight provided by the hull will always be cheaper than paying for the components directly when dealing with superships. Math does not lie.

except when math says 1+1=3

lmao

but seriously the way your designing is highly inefficient

You've hit that middle ground between tiny man and super ship, omnitrex.

The advantage of the tiny man is that it's expensive upgrades but small ship space make it have lower fleet power with bigger stats. Unfortunately, this comes at the price of efficiency. Tiny Men are MUCH more expensive than an equivalent strength supership, but they are useful when you want very low power, as for attacking someone smaller than you, or making someone attack you because they think you are smaller and weaker than you really are. Go with normal supers for missions, and use the tiny men as saboteurs when you need them.