Forum - Space Odyssey MMORPG - a massive free online space game

Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening commanders!

Sir Emi has brought to me an offer. As you will notice from the post located at http://forum.spaceo.net/index.php/topic,1827.0.html Sir Emi gave me the opportunity to gain votes to get my fleets back. If you look at the numbers posted, you can clearly see that killer fleets are still a problem. I even created excel spreadsheets to verity that the data makes absolutely no sense and shouldn't have happened.

The first mission could have taken out the ship I lost, however the 32 billion encounter had no chance to take out my main ship as many of you have seen me personally do encounters well over 40 billion in power. 32 billion power is nothing and is no reason to lose a fleet. Also, why/how does a 32 billion encounter have more power then a 69 billion encounter?

Sir Emi gave me the option of collecting votes to get my fleets back though he requests 20 commanders (which is too extreme, but I will get them)

Please view the post linked above and vote on weither or not I can get my ships back. This is rediculous and pathetic that I am being made to get peoples opinions about weither or not I get my fleets back. Sir Emi knows this is truely a bug. It has nothing to do with accuracy. The numbers do not lie. The way combat is figured is bugged and needs to be revised!

With all do respect. When you vote, could you put a reason as to why you chose yes or no? Sir Emi needs to know who votes yes and who votes no. He needs a minimum number of commanders that he is sure he knows

i voted no because it really wouldnt be fair for one person to get his ships and another not (discrimination), also then all you need to do to get your ship back is to have a fulll alliance and ask them to vote yes for you and that really wouldnt be fair now, finally several other people have lost ships, example dremselb that completly killed him for a good week. i like the idea of voting for refunds of ships but that would take out the challenge that is left

I voted yes as coming up against fleets in missions/encounters that you normaly do with ease only to lose a ship is rather discouraging. I lost a very expensive ship the other day on an encounter that should have been done without a loss, i was just lucky i had the creds to replace it (something ive learnt from hitting lots of killer fleets, always keep enough creds to replace a loss).

Chicpea.

 :)

We have all been hit by killer fleets at one stage or another, i voted yes but not because of any reason other than maybe something will be done about the killer fleets, we read so much about them and i have encountered quite a few myself, I sent a mail to sir e about a week ago after losing a an 800 bill power ship to a 2-300 bill encounter, one fleet was thrown at me that was so high on defence hitpoints and numbers that i could have sent a hundred of mine and still lost but I didnt get a response for this, the encounters do need looking at, god knows not many will risk their fleets on rankings encounters anymore....

 :)

well ive hitten my fair share of killer fleets, and over time you realize that with out them there wouldnt be as much of a challenge and the major problem i see with voting on the forum is that all one person has to get his ships back is create multiple forum accounts and keep voting

Emi, There is #1 rank and #2 rank commanders both voting yes. Merchant has a good point however, I feel that once you encounter a killer fleet. The fleets should be given back due to killer fleets being an extreme bug. If the encounter says 32 billion power, it should be what it says, otherwise no-one can really trust what the encounter says the power is going to be. You saw clearly in my images I included that show the excel spreadsheets stating the results of the missions that the power of the fleets I engaged were WELL over the power for the encounter.

This is EXACTLY why I requested all commanders to show proof of the votes by posting with their response to prove that no-one creates multiple accounts to vote. Emi stated that only 3 known commanders have to vote yes, and the rest can be by commanders who are not well known which gives freedom for all commanders to vote and let their voice be heard.

well, i voted no because like merchant said...killer fleets, while they were a bit rediculous before in the beginning of the game...are part of the game and just because u encounter 1 killer fleet doesn't mean u shoudl get ur fleets back.  If it happened like twice in a row then maybe u should get ur fleets back, but unless that happens then it's just part of the game

i have to agree with you there wolfwood, if an encounter says its gonna have 32 billion power it should have 32 billion power, i think that instead of voting on the forum where people can be biased, there should be like a council of 5 -10 or like a list of requirement to be able to be refunded and if it fits the requirements or if the council decides wether or not a refund is needed due to over kill or just pure "ship" slaughter.

I change my vote...even if it won't change on the poll...twice in a row or more is too harsh for a killer fleet...they're just supposed to come up once in a while like with a 1:100 or more chance...2:2 is a big difference

A council like the one that fleet commanders voted for? If thats the case then I would be one of the council members. What happens when its a member of the council?

People, please view the post where I include evidence before you vote because voting no without the proper evidence means that I will unfairly not get my fleets back.

since the council would have power to decide on that matter they would have to be, how do i say this , above the matter, meaning they would either have to deal with it or like what you did message emi and have him decide on this matter maybe.... like 2 more less powerful councils that could decide on that matter

Well, it's more like a 2:10 occurrance that it happened, however, that is still way too extreme. I have been doing encounters for a few weeks now that ive been back and this is the first time it happened and to me today. Either way 2:2, 2:10, 2:1,000,000,000,000 . . . It shouldn't happen at all . . .

This is a serious problem and is screwing over not just myself but everyone who encounters them. Emi really needs to fix this and without this being fixed, it will drive players away. People say it will reduce the difficulty of the game, however I disagree. If commanders know they will not engage killer fleets, they will adapt to new design methods and when combat between commanders comes around, it will be more a game of skill then luck.

Why should we have to rely on luck to keep our fleets alive? Why can we not rely on skill to keep our fleets alive?

Adaption, it's the key aspect in this game

altho i voted no, id like you to kno after carefully reveiwing the link, in the end i hope you do get your ships. altho my opinion on this matter will stand, but also by offering one commander a chance to be refunded on his ships other will want the same

Why should we be forced to adapt to a bug?

Everyone knows its a bug, why do people argue that the bug should remain? Bugs are bad . . . They pose no good to the game world. Imagine yourself just starting out. You spend 10 hours working to get youself to a point you can be proud of

Then in a blink of an eye, you encounter the super fleet bug and blam, those 10 hours of work . . . gone . . . . . Are you going to want to stick around in a game that shows that your going to face this much power, then you end up encountering many times that amount?

sorry Nicholas.. but i voted no simply beacuse alot worse has happened to me, and many other people i know.. it happens in encounters nothing is safe...

i've lost all my armoda to encounters like this, so has 2 of my members in my allaice, then 1 more lost half his ships.. broni got hit hard and quit for quite some time beacuse of this, Squank got taken out of the top ten by encounters like this...

it happens all the time, most people call it a killer fleet and if emi gives people back their ships every time they lose them to a mission this game wouldnt be chalanging anymore..

1. Killer fleets are not a bug

2. they are only a bug if they appear more times than they're supposed to.

3. If killer fleets are a bug (besides the once in a while) then they really should be fixed

4. Emi is trying to fix up some other things at the moment and searching through lines of code to see where they intersect to form the killer fleets more than they're supposed to if they're even supposed to show up takes a while

5. Adaptation - i don't mean to a bug, but if it turns out not to be a bug, and emi just changed it so that killer fleets appear more and more, then spaceo will become complete war instead of doing galaxy missions and events (But please...ADAPT to new things that are not bugs)

I vote - NO -, many people including myself lost ships to "killer fleets" since this round started, it has been brought up multiple times and no one else has gotten their ships back. I agree that encounters do not always reflect the fleet power shown and that is what I think needs to be fixed.

But if you do get your ships back, its only fair that everyone else does as well.

NO do not give the ships back.  I loose as many ships as the next one.  It is not like a supior aggressor will always win a battle.  in fact throughout histroy a few have held off or just outright beaten the hords.  everyone gets that lucky shot once in a while.  It is part of the reason I like this game is that random factor.  Some times it gets annoying and for some even discoourging, however, it is a necessary part of the game.  If this was a bug I would say yes but it is not a bug.  Some times your intell is wrong. That is how it works in life so why not in the game.  I guess those piriates were former military that went rouge. Thus thier better firepower than normally expected.

I voted yes. Killer fleets themselves are not a bug, however, the amount they appear AND the power at which they appear is too much. I have seen a few encounters from other players where the fleets are 10x-20x the stated power of the encounter. There is no way that is not a bug. It's like seeing a goose and wlaking over to it and then all of a sudden when you get there it's a dinosaur, not suppose to happen. Basically, the main part is to reduce how often you can run into a killer fleet, that ratio should be 1:100, if not higher.

And no silverthorne, Sir emi onyl offered it to nicholas, not everyone else, so only nicholas should get them back, even if it seems unfair, it's not. Others presented their case, and were said no to, nicholas presented his and Sir emi said yes, it's fair.

I voted yes, because the ships are too strong, you shouldn't be encountering ships more powerful then what the mission says it is.

Ok, that's a 6-4 vote here, with at least 4 major, well known commanders saying yes, and only 2 saying no. almost at the halfway mark already nich.

All I need is a majority vote of 20 votes, 3 major commanders (which is already achieved) stating yes. Chicpea, TheDarkness and Seither.

To respond to people saying no, dont give them back because ive lost ships too. How many of you took the time to create the statistics for the missions? I included screenshots of the excel spreadsheets and would be MORE then happy to supply whoever requests the actual excel file.

How many people say, "Oh, I lost a fleet(or fleets) to a killer fleet! Give my ships back!" without providing evidence? Just about everyone?

Who actually supplies the claim with evidence. Me . . . . I haven't seen anyone else do that. Why not? If you really wanted your ships back bad enough, you would fight to get them back.

Also, its actually 7-3. Remfer voted no origionally but never checked out the link I included with my main post. He then posted stating that he changed his vote to a yes.

I voted no, because like Gunfighter_frank I agree that sometimes your intell is just plain wrong.
The way i see it, its just part of the game. We have all lost ships inexplicably once in a while, and while its likely its lines of code colliding in unanticipated ways, its something that we all risk when we send fleets on missions.

So...  Even though I completely agree that wolfwood is essentially right in his case, I still vote no, because its not a new development, people have lost ships for inexplicable, unanticipated ways for as long as I've been playing. My reaction to such losses is to suck it up, and try to find ways to minimize the risks of it happening again.
I have lowered the difficulty of missions i will attempt to such a degree that my ships can survive killer fleets, not just ordinary mission fleets. Because of this, my cost of resupply has been very low, and hence ive grown faster than those who take their fleets to the limit every mission.
And still, once in a blue moon, i will lose a ship, even though it by itself has 1000 times more power than the encryption mission i was attempting.

I guess its just a risky business, flying warships and getting shot at. You think you have the biggest baddest ship in the world, with impervious force fields to guard you from harm... and somehow someone just happened to have your shield frequency and randomly fired at your magazines.... and in a second of unleashed antimatter fury, your fancy new dreadnought becomes a fancy expanding cloud of glowing plasma.

Heh, well put Argus. I can respect that answer

Did some research


Emi stated on August 1st that encounters do go through the cost calculator. The first mission was 1.2 trillion cost more then my fleets.
The second mission is obviously overpowered. Why do encounters go through an experimental system? Why arent experiments tested on a test server before brought to the live server?

This makes for very unhappy commanders.

Men I got hit so many times by fleets that were impossible, ships that were there asd the calculater rather has 1 ship then none, letting me face ships 1000x my cost and strenght wiping me out. Did I get resupplied? NO
So why would we do it now?

Well I vote give all the ppl who lost thier fleets to killer fleets thier ships back ... - I got more than once wiped at the beginning of this round ... - but I am afraid Sir E ll not give back anything because than he would have to be fair and reemburse all who lost (and to ba fair ppl will have to get reembured based on the time in round they lost ... and that would be much to much work to figure out ...) over all I would like to get reembured but I am afraid it will not happen - maybe next round lol

As others have said, killer fleets are no bug.

The only issue I see is the enemy fleet taking into account all the active fleets you have to calculate the maximum enemy fleet cost.
It should calculate taking into account only the fleets you take into battle, so it will be fixed in the next update.

God Speed!

hiya sir e - that sounds cool so u ll prolly be able still to hide behind p-ships while doing missions or galaxy :-) ... sweet sweet sweet ...

well put Frank, especially with the intel part

I agree frank but this isnt once in a while that wolf is talking about, apparently killer fleets are 1/100 nic is 2/2 now thats either really unlucky which it could be or a game bug, this happened one after the other, it would annoy most people 
 if it had been one yesterday and one the day before that then fair play just rotten luck but not straight away hit another killer

 :)

I voted no, here is my reasoning:
SpaceO is a game, under HEAVY Development, that means that there are bugs, and there will probably be bugs for a long time, its just part of developing a game.  Now, there is not enough evidence here that this is actually a bug, it could just be that you got unlucky, and faced 2 Killer Fleets in a row.  If Sir Emi were to take the time to restore your fleets, I can almost garuntee you that an 'outbreak' will occur, and EVERYONE will want their fleets back, thus hindering Sir Emi's ability to develop the game further, and fix the bug (if it is a bug).  This is a game, in all games you have a chance at winning, and a chance at loosing, you lost, there is not a SINGLE person on this game that has never lost a battle on here, its part of the game.  You need to stop your crying and complaining, and let Sir Emi Develop the game, and let Everyone else play they game, all you end up doing is proving you are a big baby that crys when he looses, I have news for you, GET OVER IT!

-That is ALL I have to say on the Subject,
SnipeDragon

This game has been under heavy development for a very long time. Sir Emi will not state that it's in heavy development unless he is working on a big new addition. Otherwise its just small bug fixes here and there. Also Sir Emi went on the forums and spoke with people on messengers and the sort saying that the problem was fixed when it apparently is not fixed.

Also for everyone voting no. Could you possibly come up with a better reason for voting no then simply saying, It happened to me and I didnt get em back!

Not a single one of you has stated and shown that you have gone to Emi to get your fleets back. Just messaging emi about fleets getting returned will not get you your fleets back. I have shown evidence of game fault here and have taken the initiative to give viable data to emi to get this resolved so it doesn't happen in the future.

Granted, yeah we all lose fleets. But to lose fleets to something you have no control over? To lose a 1.2 trillion dollar ship to a 32 billion power encounter when you were doing over 50 billion power encounters all day not but a few hours earlier?

As for you SnipeDragon. You have been around for a little bit. You should know that I don't take to kindly to being flamed while chatting directly or on the forums. Also, you are the only one who has resulted to insults on this post. *Sigh*

Also for all of you. It's not a 2/2 thing. It was approximately 2 in 10 battles. within 10 battles these two events happened. I completely know that I am not the only one this has happened to but my question to those it HAS happened to. Why haven't you provided solid evidence to Emi? I have yet to hear anyone who even ATTEMPTED to show emi evidence of the fleets. If you report something to Emi and not back it up with evidence, Emi needs to create that evidence. Emi might not see things your way. If you provide him evidence, its a third party working to devise a solution.

I voted no cause if one guy suddenly gets his ships back, every1 will start nagging on Sir Emi each time they encounter a killer fleet. ive been using ships that dont cost much cause then i could resupply them each time i lose em, and i havent used more then 300 turns b4 encountering a killer fleet the last times ive decided to try n use my turns. And if im not mistaken, this is an online game. In my eyes, its players that should take others down, not killerfleets. As it is now, many ppl have more then enough troubles trying to earn money on missions and pay the losses from killerfleets without having to donate.

Besides, cant u just donate a dollar or 2, like several others do each time they lose a ship? Funny how u only need 1$ to get everything back and more once ur under rank 100... Hard to kill a donator :)

I've got an idea.

Screw it. I've recovered from the losses, however, the killer fleet problem still exists.

Emi, how soon can we expect work to be done about the killer fleets?

How about a triggered warning stating that the sensors might have malfunctioned but an estimate power of %power% has been detected in the region or something when the fleets are figured?

To be honest, I would rather see the problem get fixed then get my fleets back and have the problem not get fixed and me get my ships back. If the problem gets fixed, everyones happy. If I get my ships back and the problem still happens, then everyone will be all butthurt and start flaming the forums and the sort.

yeah i didnt vote since ya dont seem to care nymore, but no one has gotten fleets back from kill fleets or bugs for quite a while, and cant do it for one person and not evry1 else, even if u did deserve the ships back...

Ok, so there is only one way that an encounter or galaxy mission can have more than the max power shown:
- In the event of spawning only 1 (one) fleet, with 1 (one) ship, the ship will be left there, even if it exceeded the max fleet power or max fleet cost, so the encounter  / gal missions should be less or max 10% more than the max power. If you spot one with more that does not include a single ship, please let me know, and send me the battle report.

P.S.: there will be an update today on the max fleet cost of the enemy for encounters and galaxy missions, to make it more ballanced.

ok, that was a bit confusing so let me make sure i got it

Galaxy mission/event/etc. If it only has 1 ship...in 1 fleet, then it could have 10% of the total power [stated in mission briefing] more or less than what is stated...

E.G.

Ship 1 [1 bil power] VS Encounter [500 mil power]   ==> [Attack]

Assault:

Ship 1 [1 bil power] VS Enemy 1 [550 mil power]

Or

Ship 1 [1 bil power] VS Enemy 1 [450 mil power]

Is this correct or did i misinterperate it?

that was highly confusing Sir Emi. I say we do like the cost calculater, you can turn killer fleets on and off, but turning them off reduces the reward, because it's safer to do the missions, so you lose the hazard pay (or you leave them on and get an extra bonus for completing a mission, aka hazard pay).

There should be no change in reward because when the encounter says its for this much power, you should encounter +-10% of that encounter. There should be no reduction of rewards and there should be no turning off killer fleets and turning them back on. They should never occur in the first place =-/

i think what hes saying is that unless u encounter only 1 ship, u should report it to him if the encountered fleet is more then 10% of the max fp u shouldve encountered... which is whats been happening all the time, which again is what were calling a fuqing killerfleet... =)

sadly duo

i voted no

ur not the only one who's lost fleets to killerfleets

and like ive said before this game is a war game not a mission game so ur not suppose to get so much of a gain by doing missions only.

Smee

actually u wont get jack diddly out of war either cause ships just keep exploding =P

*Sigh* Yet another person with the excuse that everyones lost ships. Do none of you read the entire post before you speak?


*Sigh*

wow...ur avatar matches that last post completely

 :question:


Side Note: Hells yes . . . :kakashi: now I found an emoticon with my favorite character (who happens to be the background for my myspace)

I voted yes because I have had the same problem. Every time i start to get somewhere i run into a killer fleet and am knocked back to where i was a week ago. I keep losing ships with 70 million power on 15-30 million power encounters. There is no real way around them other than to have massive ships on small encounters. I think they need to be changed and I would like to thank Wolfwood for brining attention to it like this.

Emi, looks like you owe me my ships back.

Out of 20 votes 10 said yes, and 8 said no. If you review the first page of votes, remfer origionally voted no, but he changed his vote by stating that he changes his vote to a yes. You said 20 posts would be needed. You have you 3 well known commander yes votes and 10 votes was what your requirement was

Please check the updates section:
http://forum.spaceo.net/index.php/topic,1855.0.html

You state here that you do not wish the fleets back as long as something is done, please leave feedback on the killer fleets and how the issue is adressed in the updates topic. If the killer fleets are resolved, I do not think it would be fair to others to give any fleets back.

I also stated that what happened was not a bug, but an increased difficulty due to a higher maximum cost of the enemy fleets.

Most of the commanders that voted in favor voted with the purpose of something beeing done in this matter, so they are free to change their minds, the pool lasts until the end, January the 4'th, and it is not closed yet.

Thank you

me i voted yes manly because as a newer player ov this game i beleve it is unfair that the showen power douse not equal the acual power.
albe it i am new ant do not rely now much about the game . but thats my opinion .

neptis

Heh nice try Emi. I did what you told me to do. Now you need to do what you said you would do.

"To be honest, I would rather see the problem get fixed then get my fleets back . . . "

This does not state that I do not want my ships back. This states that I would like to see the problem get fixed more then I want my ships back. I NEVER stated that I do not want my ships back.

You also have not fixed the problem because I have been encountering TONS of single fleet combats with tons of ships. You say you have, like you said many times before, but they are still appearing. I guarantee this is still happening.


As for the poll still being opened. You NEVER stated that it had to run for a maximum time. You DID specify that 20 votes would be needed. Wish to try again?

You said
and ur avatar looks upset :))

Yes, return his ships and mine!  3 (14.3%)
Yes, return his ships.  7 (33.3%)
This is rediculous. Making a person beg for his ships back.  1 (4.8%)
No, don't give his ships back  9 (42.9%)
Is Emi going to make everyone beg for their ships when they get lost from bugs?  1 (4.8%)
 Lock Voting
 
Total Voters: 21


well thats more then 20 votes ^^

guess we know the out come

Smee :12:

pwned

Thx smee

what about the ppl who voted give him his and mine back, do they get theres too? cause with out those he woulda lost the pole

doesn't really matter i guess... they basically said yes

Pretty much, they did say yes.

I agree that others should get their ships back however I dont feel they need to get them back. None of them showed proof of game fault and could very well be of pilot error, not game error. I showed clearly that it was not pilot error

I full-heartedly agree with you Duo, and you got my vote.   hi


I am glad to see emi limit the cost to 1.5x total fleet though. However, as ships change and efficiency of them increase it will become more and more difficult not to lose ships, even at 1.5x total fleet cost.