Forum - Space Odyssey MMORPG - a massive free online space game

Made a little modification, if you had the skills to ressupply and could sell and buy a ship for 50% of the value, you will now only get 90% of the 50%, to limit abuse of the feature combined with royalty in order to transfer credits to lower accounts.

E.g.: buy a ship that costs 1000, for 500 (with skills), sell for 500*0.9=450

God Speed!

Wll this isn t a small modification. - I do play the game just for a quite short while and I think I could be quite happy whit what I had achived (and yes I did donate a lot in past to get here - before anybody complains about my low ID).

I don t know why u really changed it - abuse of feeding lower commanders - sounds wired to me.
- For sure somebody must have complained about other ppl getting credits via royalities at now costs - in fact yep I am one of the personens who benefited from getting the line assembly skill to that point. - and BOOM thats now a major change to me -

Somewhere in all this posts I read a post concerning realism in the game (about workers ...) ... - there where 2 different opinions about that - the 1st was to change the workers to make it more realistic. 2nd not to change to keep the game more balanced for all. - It was decided not to change - at least for the running round - this change has a MAJOR impact on at least some players here. - Concerning realism think about this: In real world,

1. some ppl life from buying and selling - they are called traders and normally even major discounter companies have a profit of 4% - old system here was less. - now u can t anymore ...
2. if u don t exapt ship-trading for royalities - than make the range of the market bigger - if u have enough space on ur mothership and enought cash at hand u can atm make around 1 trill a day ... - how someone could ever be able to replace or even new buy ships at trillions pricing if u can t properly gain cash?

Some players for sure did already pass the breack even point for line assembly in far past (1), some did just (2), some will pass it soon(3) and some may be later or even never (4). - But in a running round every player should have the same chance to improofe his capacity. - So that all ppl (1-4) MAY have the  chance to use what the system provides on options.

I don t know who complainded and I don t care. - But there are 2 major groups of ppl I can think of: (don t feel offended when ur not envolved - but if ur the reason for this change: FEEL IT and BURN IN HELL!!!) :atention:

1. very high ranked/lvled cdrs - possible reason to complain: fear of possible threat to existing / obtained positions - likeing to sit on huges stash and now (after the change) knowing nobody will never ever be able to catch up. - I don t know how these ppl got thier cash is past ... - but I know that some ppl did benefit a lot of this in past... - anyhow I think for these players there may be a point where it is no really longer is interresting to gain 17 or today 20 bills of royalities ... if u have 1000K bills in stash - its not interresting anymore I think :-)

2. lower ranked/lvled cdrs - hum hardly to find one but there is, I know at least of some lower lvled cdr making them self a lot of fun of continiously attacking higher ranked players and than hidding so deep in ranking that they can t be hit in anycase (yes u ppls with tiny small motherships ... hi) - well I can imaging that u maybe got attacked either by a alt or a loaner . that posibilty no 1 - no 2 would be someone was just jealous of non getting benefits for this or that ... - well be smart other player/ppl tend sometimes not to be fair. - neither reason 1 nor 2 would be a valid one in my eyes. - If u can find u self in explination no. 1 or 2. - well think about ur attitude and/or ur mental healt :6:.

hum maybe u the reader already reralized it but I am really angry about this change, its unfair, not needed and taking away options for players. - For me it took still a lot of time to get where I am (sir e may checked the turns I used) - and I really fell bad if one of the achievements I planed for long is taken away :wounded1:.

w/r bb

Ahem, the reason he took it away is because it was cheat-ing. People were abusing that aspect of the game. Therefore, people who used it were basically cheat-ers. Now, understandably, some people somehow might not of known about it's cheatitude factor, which is why many people were not banned. But Sir Emi has full right to get rid of any cheat at any time it so pleases him, which is usually ASAP, one would guess. If you complain about this change, you might as well complain about the Titan of War abuse getting fixed.

In short, rule-abiding people have no sympathy for others who abuse the system. Us non-cheaters are lucky we didn't loose the associated feature because of you guys. Be smart, use common sense, don't ruin the game.

aha so I am the bad guy now - cool - so not only I am a cheater than - all ppl who ever used Royalities to pay a other person for a hint or favour are than cheaters. - what about that. - If it would have been cheating Sir E would have banned me for sure - with all rights to do it - but not only me.

I was told weeks ago for the possibility to get the break even point - so it was known - (and used for weeks) - I was also told that Sir E was already told to change the percentage ratio from 50% to 48% e.g.  - he didn t changed it at that time, so there is no abuse of a bug or what ever. (and to give u the information, I just could use it for less than 3 days - and u still need a 2nd person to exchange ...)

that titan of what - thing happend before I was playing this game. - but as far as I could find out he forced systems into ships and used bots to do missions or so ---. --- well for single each ship I and others resupplied we did a mouse klick our own, had to design that ships, clone it etc. so its not a thing of 2 secs and u have a trill ... . - thats kind of offending to say that I am at the same position like that "tow". - there is a huge differnence in what is done ...

I don t know who u are in game, maybe a good or non good player, its irrelevant to me, but ur post sounds for me like u kinda of cat 2 players being just jealous that others have something u don t have. - very poor - get adult!

w/r bb

It's an abuse, a cheat. Just because he hadn't gotten it fixed yet doesn't change the fact. What's Sir Emi going to do? Completely close down the entire game until it's fixed? I think not. Also, I don't know whether you're a cheater or not, but either way, you can't complain for him doing his job. He's supposed to get rid of cheats, hacks, and many cheaps. Using royalties to pay someone isn't cheating, usually, but doing it in conjunction with an abuse is cheating.

Abusing a bug is cheating and completely against ToS. Oh, and cheating is cheating, Titan of War cheated, people who abused this bug cheated. They're both worthy of the same punishment, people who used it should be happy they didn't get what he got for his cheating. And finaly, it doesn't matter how long you abused it for, the ToS never states time. You cheat, and Sir Emi has all the rights in the world to perma-ban you.

And, I have a question for you. Why the heck would I be jealous of a bunch of people who's only chance at being good in this game is through abusing a bug? I do what I do within the rules, I use skill and analysis. If I get high in the game, it is because I'm good at it, not because I abused some cheap bug. Like I always say: "If you cheat, it's not you who's beating the game, it's the cheat."

I am not immature for seeking that Sir Emi get rid of bugs. But I would be immature if I stooped down so low as to completely give up and use bugs to get to the top. Thus ruining the game for all the law-abiding players.

well ur even more poor than I thought before - u consider using a given skill at its max efficency cheating - OK ur opinion. - To my knowlage the skill line assembly was modified to avoid cheating some time ago - as I was told it was possible to buy ships as a lower price than the sell price. - that was considered a bug and using it was cheating. - the royalities thing seems to be known at that time 2 - so why was it not changed at that time 2 ...

to ur opinion about me, well my ID is lower than urs - if I am right ur chronos in game 2 - no matter at all, - but by saying that I was only able to uses it for like 3 days before it was changed I gave u a good information ... - ... - do u get it? I guess not ... - I was in the top 20 before that and I am still there - ur not the only one knowing of skills, ships and facilities ... - even to get line assembly to the break even point I needed 5% from facilities, 20% gold account and 33% from line assembly - u may have an idea how long it takes to get that many % in line assembly? - u even have a idea what lvl my cdr is? - na u wouldn t - maybe sir e can post my online time and urs.
- If I am a cheater well in my opinion the most of top 50 are it than - as u said urself before - no matter how long u cheated ... - do u realy thing ppl give bills for informations about encounters they could find them self if they really pay them ... - u ll soon notice that there will be either no payment for hints anymore ot it will be drasticly reduced.
- hey just think - how u think many ppl jumped up to top 30 ... - out of nowhere - most of them did not donate most of them got feeded by other players - 3 days ago u got about 15 bills I think per 1$ donated so to get 1 trill u would have to donate 8x 5$ + 4$ extra = 44,-$ (caled with 3$bonus per 5$) - out of the sudden there ppl up in top 30 with cash of like 50 trills ... u mean many ppl donate 2200$ ? - in which world ur living? - even if u take the today numbers for donations ratio the amount would be tremandous.
there many ppl up in the top ranks with very low cdr lvls (privates etc) how would never been able to obtain such a position normally - u call me a cheater ... - what about them? or the ppl who took them to where they are. - for me its clear - I was so right - ur jealous or u just need to play urself into the front of the stage - somebody has a other toy which u don t have - go and ask ur mum to get one for u 2 ...
(so usually now someone will start and comment my english or just complain about it ... - just skip it - I am not a native speaker and I ll never become one)

still w/r bb

in other words ill  buy a ship for 100 credits at 50% off (only for 500 credits) giving someone else money for royalty, then i would sell the ship again and gain back 500 credits (loseing nothing) while giving the player that i bought from a lot of money from royaltys and loseing nothing.. good job emi on fixing that i only just relized it last night when i was talking with jeff :D

Hiya Lamma,

yep thats how it worked till today, now u ll pay 500 for it but just get back 450 when u sell it again - royalities remain the same as far as I understood.

w/r bb

Yet you still think I'm jealous.

This abuse, as Sir Emi himself puts it, allows you to give someone money from nothing. Free cash is an abuse no matter which way you look at it. It doesn't matter who does it, or for how long, or even if Sir Emi knows about it. It is cheating, and is most certainly wrong.

And despite what you may think, some people don't want to cheat. Some people would rather loose honorably then have ill-gotten victory.

A game is defined by it's rules. If you win, but you do not abide by those rules, you didn't win this game, but another game without rules. And anybody can win a game without rules. If you don't like this game because of it's rules, you are more then welcome to play another game with rules more suiting to your taste. I would most certainly not blame anybody for leaving because they don't like the rules. In fact, I would applaud them for making the mature choice over many other less appropriate options such as flaming. If you don't like any of the games, feel free to make your own, if the majority likes your rules better, most of them will play your game rather then ours. But cheating is unacceptable, and you can't tell me money from nothing is not cheating.

And to clarify again, as I have already. It doesn't matter who you are, cheating is cheating and is wrong. Do not cheat. If you can't make it to the top now, wait till next round.

Now, about me being jealous. As I have stated before, I do not use cheats, I will never use or exploit bugs, I will never abuse a system. Why? Because then any victory I have will be hallow and worthless. And even if I am jealous, which I am not, what is it to you? If I speak falsely testify to what is false, if I speak the trueth, then admit to it. I am not on trial, and neither are you. What I am does not matter to what I say, rather what I say matters to who I am. But, again, I still say I am not jealous. Rather, to say truethfully, I have pitty for people who's victory can only be achieved by exploiting bugs. For their victory is no victory at all.

And again I say, cheating is cheating no matter who you are, how long you did it, or for what reason. Cheating is wrong, and is against the rules, for it's sole purpose is to break the rules. The bug allowed people to get free money without cost to the other. You can not tell me that free money is within the rules. No matter for whom or how long.

(Added:) Also, in response to what you said about my opinion about you. I never stated an opinion about you. Rather, I stated an opinion about those who use cheats. And also, so what if your number is bigger then mine? What matters is n00b saturation, and n00bhood knows no time. I do not know whether you posess n00bhood or not. And, as I have said, if I speak falsely, testify to what is false, but if I speak the trueth, then admit to it. I am not on trial, and neither are you.

Oh, and I do not expect a non-native to have near-perfect grammar. I don't even expect that out of a native. But what I do expect is an attempt at looking presentable. If you are trying, then I shall not hold it against you. Though I may ask for clarification if I can not understand a point because of its lack of grammar.

to limit abuse of the feature combined with royalty in order to transfer credits to lower accounts

thats what sir e said - repeat it in its sence if u reapeat it.

1st he said limit - not prevent
2nd its about feeding alts / lower accounts

w/r bb

PS: I am really going sick on this. - I am unhappy on that change and thats a right I have (I hope I have lol). - Cheating is for me something like press alt/tab and enter code xyz or using supporting programs like bots or coding programms. - using a valid option a program provides - sorry no cheating for me.

To give this dscussion a new point, what about a system design e.g. it costs 1 credit, 1 space used and just a little energy used to give a huge dmg - no point that values. - the point on such a weapon is it would prolly be maxed out, nobody will say thats cheating (normally nobody will even notice ...) - so if someone maxes skills to the best benefit for him self its cheating and if down with other game aspects its not. - If I consequently think ur arguements to the end all ppl designing better ships are cheaters 2 - that can t be right.

w/r bb

I don't mind transfering credits, that's fine. It's the money for free thing that upsets me. Money from nothing is cheating, transfering credits is usually not.

And about the designing point. What do you mean huge damage? The only unbalanced thing you could get from swarmers were tinymans, and they were because of swarm bonus. And that's been fixed. Trust me, they really isn't much of a way to exploit the formulea. I've been studying them for months, not to mention other people would be using it. Such a weapon, if it did exist, would not be cheating. Though, Sir Emi might eliminate it to balance stuff out.

And how the heck did you jump to maxing skills being cheating?

Youre only a cheater when you delibirating using a cheat/hack etc

Well as Broni alreayd noted he got to this ranking place without any of this credits transfer. We (broni and me) both got told by several other players this was legitimate and that Emi knew about this. Well if this is a possibility of the game, we can use it if we want. We worked hard for this, and we got what we wanted. Although I'm not against [reventing this trade. I think this does improve the game. But still if you see the top 5 they all have so much money that even now they could easily feed trillions to lower members.

But one reason why I wanted break even was that I coudl buy a ship to do a large encounter then sell it again so I get my interest (or buying powerships to say hey look I'm first or look I'm second) then selling them without lose again. Same all my ships got worth less then 2 days ago. I now get 5% less paid for a ship if I sell it.

Greetz FTP

i never donated or cheated eaither... is that why im so far behind the rest of the ppl that i WAS with?

Lammalord imagen you coudl buy and sell ships at same price, wouldnt that open much ways. You just use alot of stash to do that 10 trill encounter. Then you sell youre ship again and you didnt lose any credits on it. That what I miss now.

Ofcourse I fully udnerstand the royaltie crap.

Well if I think ur argument to the end maxing skills could be cheating 2 - think about that, someone gets +100 % in CPs / per lvl ... - that person could max out the other skills so fast - would that than be cheating 2?

w/r bb

The only reason I wanted to get line assembly to 50% was so that I could convert all of my remaining cash to ships, reserve them (this way I would have no power from cash), and attack someone below me who was harassing my friends.  Now, this isn't very useful to me.  *sigh*

If you can't get royalties from yourself (I'm not even gold, btw), now I can't break even unless I get 100% off.  Which, I'm positive, emi would hate, as would everyone else, as broni pointed out.  Not that I would probably ever get to that point or anything.

I was all excited about this ability to do this, but now it's gone.  Meh.

If only there was a way to tell if the ship was a clone or not when it was being sold, then we could refund players 100%.  If the referred players thing is a problem with this, then I suppose it would have to be made 98% (unless you could also determine if the player was referred).  I'm sure that you are able to determine if the ship was a clone, and if the player was referred, as otherwise, those things would never happen anyway.

I just want to not be penalized for using a non-clone, and being un-referred.

mabey you should make the loss for cloned ships only and call it the "royalty"

And the one how designd the ship will he get anything? I don't think so. Just put for the clone ships a 2% increase in price and that money transfer it to the designer :D

or take 10% off selling any cloned ships, but i doubt this will happen, would make the fourmal to complicated to only center on cloned ships

thank you E for doing this I think WoW and myself mentioned this to you last round before you reset us we mentioned that it should not be allowed to buy and sell for no loss. that we should have to pay a bit to transfer royalties that way.

Perhaps Emi could make ships you design count as if you cloned them from yourself?  This would alleviate the problem somewhat from my standpoint.  If it's not a clone of anyone's, there is a net loss.  The way it stands now STILL gives incentive for someone else to design the ship, then have it be cloned, as otherwise, there is a money loss.  So what we have currently is a penalty for designing your own ships, something I don't believe should be penalized.

no there is not a penalty  it is only on the sell side.  to keep those with gold accounts from just buying and selling ships at no loss to get thier people more power.  this way if they do that they have to pay for just buying and selling.

What is the story with all the old designs?

Was this change retro active to include all ships cloned in the past from the original, or does this only apply to new ships and new clones of old/ new ships?

I would really hate to be cloning a ship I designed in the past - but since someone else cloned it, or not even noticablily changed the name, THEY get the royalties from my purchase on my own ship... Would suck even more if they were an enemy.

Frank, where I'm saying the "penalty" comes in is...

Say you have a friend.  Say you also have a gold account.  Finally, say you worked hard to get to 50% off of your ship costs.  Now, you _could_ just design your own ship, OR you could have your friend design your ship for you.  You proceed to clone his ship.  You can now sell your ship, knowing that no credits have been lost, as they may have been the other way.  You are happy you know someone nice enough to trade back credits through the market, that you won't lose 10% of the costs.  You are happy that the 50-trillion credit ship ended up costing you nothing instead of 2.5 trillion.

You feel sorry for the person with no such luck, who has to spend the 2.5 trillion on the same ship that cost you nothing.

It seems to me that, as long as you get far enough in the game, having gold gives you an additional 10% off of your items.

1: what if you went a step further then... 51%?  would you then get more credits for selling the ship then what you bought it for?

2: even then, it would mean anyone with 50% off, you may as well allow them to freely transfer resources to anyone else, SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN SHOT DOWN MANY TIMES before.

3: even with just 50%, or breaking even, you could simply do this:
  a:buy the ship for (say) 10 mil
  b:sell the ship for 10 mil
  c: use market to get the 200k royalty bonus from the person you bought it off of
this would mean, by using no turns, only buying, selling ships and market, you gained 300k credits for NOTHING.

NOW do you still say the update was unnessesary?  it was a way to CHEAT, nothing less.

oh, and before anyone says 'but re-supply doesn't go above 50%' hey Ricu, how much re-supply cost was taken off due to buildings and abilities and gold (if you had gold, if not, then it is possible to get even higher) on your account end of last round? 70%? 80%?

yeah i really dont see any legitimate way anyone could complain about htis change, i got 50% last round and saw this and was gonna complain to emi about it myself... good that it got fixed...

I'm not saying no change was necessary.  I'm saying that, unless you have a gold account and a friend, you can't sell ships for as much as others can.

A gold account can keep all of the money from the ship...Buy for 50 bill, sell for 45 bill, get 5 bill traded to you.

One without it loses 5 bill in the whole process.

Again, not saying a change wasn't needed.  Just that this change isn't quite perfect.

As has been suggested, perhaps make a check to see if the fleet was cloned or not.  If the original designer was the person selling the ship, allow it to be sold for what it was bought for (if the person has 50% off of costs).  If it was cloned, then take off 10% from the selling.

I'm glad people can no longer simply create money.  However, I'm not as glad that non-gold now loses money from this.