Forum - Space Odyssey MMORPG - a massive free online space game

Ok guys, here's what's up. I've been keeping this quiet until I got reasonably close to finishing my new SO short story.

Through the wonder of the internet, I have found a way to publish the SO stories on a demand basis, saving me a LOT of money, and thus making it 100% possible I will publish them. However, as this community played a huge part in crafting the stories, I want your guys's advice on how they should be priced. Mind you, this IS advice, so don't assume I will price it exactly where you guys say. But It'll be reasonably close most likely, or spot on, depending on what price you name ect. Also, please keep the prices in USD (United States Dollar) as I live there, and that's format I'll be using.

Keep in mind the following however:

1. I am going to be adding to each story, and completely reworking the 1st story (it doesn't flow with the rest of the series right, and that irritates me, plus its too short), so they will NOT be exactly like they are, though most will remain similar, I will also be adding a few "extras" in there, to make it worth purchasing.

2. Each book will be OVER 100 pages long (Not by much is my guess, depends on the size of the book itself, if its tiny, might break 200 pages, lol)

3. The stories have been removed from the forum and my site, as I AM publishing them.

4. They are going to be paperback (only option available) black and white with a color cover (custom by...someone, I'm talking to a few people, if you think you're up to the challenge, send me an example of some of your work and reasons why I should pick you for the cover to my email below).

5. And no, free is NOT an option.

Obviously I'm not charging insane amounts for the books, but I can't go dirt cheap either. So shoot me your thoughts.

Also, on a secondary note, would people wanted signed versions of the book? Obviously a signed copy WILL cost more, as i have to have the book sent to me, sign it, and THEN ship it to you wherever you may be located (thus, depending on location, you may pay more for your signed copy than others due to shipping and handling, I'm NOT footing that bill...would cost a FORTUNE, however, the signed version of the book will be cost the same for everyone, which that will depend on how much the normal book is selling for). If I do signed versions of the book, I'm thinking of including the following:

1. Signed book

2. Certificate of Authenticity

3. possibly some other extra to be determined


I want to hear from you guys, all of you.

And Emi, I'll need you to release the rights of names, places, ect of Space Odyssey to me. Doing so in an email will be fine for me, I trust you won't sue me, and also how you would want me to give credit to you in the book, since you DO own SO. Currently I'm think the following:

Based on the broswer based MMORPG Space Odyssey By Sir Emi (or your real name if you wish) for more information, see www.spaceo.net.

My email is andrewb.dewar@gmail.com emi. And for the artists, send me a copy of your work (it does NOT have to be done by hand, if you can do stuff in some online program, you may) and why you think i should choose you for the cover art to my email. Please note, you will NOT recieve a portion of the book's cost, however, you WILL be credited in the book. This is for fame only people, I don't have the money to pay you for your art, if i did, i'd go with some big fancy person, lol.

cool deals :)

personally, I would think for around 100ish pages, I would think between 20 and 25$

tho keep in mind, over the past 2-3 years I've bought and read a single (JUST ONE!!) book and that was about 250ish pages iirc

so I wouldn't actually know pricing of good books, or even what a good book would be, lol.

100% possible? As opposed to 50% possible? Very unique (http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/unique.html) grammar. I'm kidding.

I am no trade expert, but the average book price for adult paper backs seems to be ~15,00 USD (http://www.schoollibraryjournal.com/article/CA6536651.html). It all depends on production costs, of course. I would not look at that high of a profit margin, though, as you are trying to break into the industry.


Now, here is kind of the way that I see things. Keep in mind that this just my opinion.

Your books' potential market is partially limited. The main market segment would, of course, be those who have played SpaceO. Outside of that main sector, bar word of mouth and your own advertising, you likely will not get an extreme amount of attention. Do not think that I speak doom, far from it. I do not speak what will happen, only what might happen. It is possible that your books will become the next cultural phenomenon.

My personal mantra has long been:

 "Expect what has been given,
  Attempt what may be achieved, and
  Hope for all things possible."

Now, that being said, if you can get your books published, and can do so without jeopardizing your future, I strongly suggest that you do. I mean, how cool would it be to be a published author? You would certainly have a better conversation starter than anything I could come up with ^_^". Not to mention, it would look good on ye olde resume.


With all of that, good luck to you. I truly hope this experience lives up to all of your expectations.

P.S. Make sure you are really nice to Sir Emi. This is his I.P., and you want to stay on his best side, in this regards.

P.P.S. Don't take anything I say too seriously. I have no actual experience in this matter, and thus I am mostly speaking out of my arse.

Cool - although good luck on getting emi to release his ip to you  :19:

Well, if Emi sticks to what he said before, he will release the IP to me, I mean, it would be free advertisement, lol. The only thing I need IP wise is the name Space Odyssey, people, and places. Pretty much everything else in the stories is original content. Worse comes to worse I have to rename a lot of things in the series.

and also, Chronos, the book will be listed on amazon.com too, so i'll have a decent reach as far as such things go. And production cost wise, i dare not go below $10 or so, as i will not be making much money that way. It's looking like the book will be about 150-200 pages actually. and the profit margin, so to speak, does depend on a few things, but atm, at where things stand before i've done any editting storywise, each book costs $7.50 to make total, all the publishing fees ect there. So I may not make tons off the books, but i'm not exactly looking to either, my goal is published, lol. But you make a fair point about the audience. And I wasn't planning on going too high with the price, i read a lot, and books of this sort range from $15-$20, so i'll probably be somewhere in there, but i figured i'd ask my people what they think.

sounds cool. id say about $15 is reasonable, no more if you plan on getting ppl outside SO to buy it. EMI, big advert for SO, definately help Seither out.

and, hey, am i in it? if yes then id say at least $15.02 :P

Wow, way to bet your self-worth high, jessiedog. An entire 2 cents...

Anyways, ya, your books will definitely be available to the most people on Amazon.com. I cannot think of anyplace better, though I do not know their process when it comes to listing new items. Make sure you look into their process ahead of time.

And 14,95 USD to 19,95 USD is certainly a good price range. I doubt I would put it at below 10,00 USD.

processing is the exact same time as normal processing, already looked into it. i can't remember if its average of a week from purchase to customer recieving, or a week from purchase to ship out, something like that.

And if i put it below $10 i'll be earning like...$2 a book, lol. if that >_< atm, the cost to produce per book (the rough draft) is $7.50 with all their fees and what not. but $15 is what i seem to be getting all across the board on whre to put it at, i'll probably put it right in that general range.

also, i notice no one has said anything about purchasing signed versions, do i presume this means they are not wanted and the idea should be scrapped? or that you guys skipped that part of my post, lol.

I meant the process for getting the item listed. You know, your long trudge through bureaucracy, wherein you convince the bigwigs, secretary, or automated widget that yours is an actual product worthy of showing up on their megastore search engine.

best part...I don't NEED to do that. its already part of the deal, amazon just gets a cut of the profit for each book sold (20% for them).

So no trudging for me, just the following steps:

1. publish book
2.????
3. PROFIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Generally at a bookstore I pay about $8 for a paperback.  But if this is going on the internet I would go for 10$-12$ each.... and maybe you could make a box set for a cheaper overall price :p if that were the case the individuals should go for 12$-13$ at most (I honestly wouldn't pay more for anything shorter than 200-300 pages, but then again I am cheap)

ouch 20% is a bit pricy.

if the $15 is not including shipping, it might be a bit high as well, the case set might be a good idea

unfortunately, i cannot DO a case set (i'd need multiple books, and I'm only 1/2 done with the 2nd book, lol) or i would at somepoint, s don't expect that unless a major publisher decides to pick me up. However, the book is rapidly (and by that i mean like....beyond insanely fast) approaching the 200 page mark due to the size I am using for the book, so its going to be a decent sized novel. With everything I'm doing/adding to the novel, I'm expecting it to hit about 300 pages or close to it.

and Jessie, your average publisher requires 60%+ of the books sales until you sell a TON of copies. so a 20% (40% if it was purchased via amazon, as amazon takes 20% too for the listing)fee is NOT bad, especially considering even with amazon's fee, I'm still earning most of my profit, AND amazon has a huge reach, thus a lot more potential customers.

and Sostesteg, if I did $8, I'd owe the place doing my publishing $1 a book >_< also, where i live, unless the book has been out for a while, the cheapest paperback is $15, and hardbacks start at $30, then go down a long time after they are out. Idk where or when you buy your books, but industry standard is $15, which is what it looks like I'll be going with. I'm not calculating shipping into my book price, as thats not how prices work, a book online costs the same as in a store. (shipping and handling isn't too expensive for most places, about $6 for standard, which gets you it in a week, or they have economy, which takes about 2 weeks and is like, $2 or so.)

I WILL do my best to make it worth $15, I'm making the 1st story longer and better, fixing some things in the 2nd and 3rd, and adding a few extra things to the book as well. I buy books myself, so I know you always want to get your money's worth. I will NOT go over $17.50 for the book, even if it ends up being 500 pages, that is the HIGHEST you will be paying (and $17.50 is only if I hit 500 pages, lol). and if i sell enough of the 1st one, when the 2nd one comes out, I'll probably drop the price for the 2nd one *wink wink*.

I *may* be able to do discount codes or something, i'm not sure, if i can, i might do some sort of giveaway event, we'll see, i'm not sure what all is/isn't possible yet. We'll see what happens once i'm done with the final draft, which should be soon.

Until then, Hobey ho.

Seither, I think this can be awesome for Space Odyssey, especially if you have success with the book.

So I will give you permission to use the Space Odyssey name, and places, stories and anything related to the game that might make the book more interesting. I think that by reading the book, many will be inclined to also try the game and embark on a SO adventure.

Be sure to include the www.spaceo.net website and state that you where inspired from the virtual world of Space Odyssey.
I think you should use the term virtual world, as not everyone knows what an MMORPG is...

You will receive the email today.

Thank you and good luck.

Thank you emi, and I will use virtual world to describe Space Odyssey, and I wouldn't dream of leaving out the website address, lol. *goes to scour for anythign else he can use to enchance the SO I Trilogy book.

You should make a cool cover art  :P i bet some people in the forum could help with that, i see some nices stuff in the fan art section, you should get one of those artists to make you something

I actually have a cover artist now, she's doing the art by hand. What I've seen so far looks amazing.

thats cool.  cover art is usually what sells a book, I know that if i saw a book with a an awesome cover art i'd be more compelled to buy it.

Ya, cover art does help sales a lot, which is why i wanted someone else to do it, cause I suck at art, hand and computer based, lol.

Just put a picture of me on the cover....that book would be a bestseller in like...a week.  XD j/k j/k

Anyways, this is a great idea and I can't wait to buy a copy :p

if by best seller you mean *worlds fastest book purchased for fire materials* than yes it would. :P

Yea
No way i would pay over a few bucks for something a kid wrote about this game
I think books are way overpriced as it is
Not to mention becoming outdated
If you really are just doing it to get the book out
Then sell it for 7.51
That way you pay for cost and no profit.

Well...errr...good luck and all but I don't actually like your stories  :) (no malice intended, just saying my opinion)

Who is deleting my posts
I want to know why

yah.... spayed's also got deleted from this topic.... he said something about the book being worth as much as toilet paper

Come on, mods. If you just delete things without explanation, things get confusing.

i think it's porbably de to the fact that spayed and cameron tend to jsut insult me in whatever topic i post/post in. I'm not sure why you'res got deleted waylain, unless it was pertaining to the spayed's/cameron's posts.

and thats ok TNTTony, I don't expect everyone to like my stories, there will always be people who think they are garbage or whatever. You at least said it in a nice way, which is much appreciated.

I think you guys will like the book, it shaping up nicely, approaching 300 pages with all the extras i added in.

Spayed was given a three day ban.  Insulting is alright to an extent but after a while it just turns into flaming and bashing....which isn't allowed here.  As for your reply waylain, I believe I may have accidently deleted it when I removed Spayed's...my browser stopped loading so I hit remove again and it may have been yours which got removed, I will restore it if it lets me...sorry about that.

UPDATE:  Restored.

Books cost what they do because of production costs and then the publishers making sure they get a good profit from it. I'm pricing the book at the industry standard of $15, which most people I've talked to agree that is a fair price, as atm, the draft is at a little over 300 pages.

And I'm not doing this to get the book out there, this is how I'll be publishing unless a publishers comes to me with a nice offer.

Also, I'm not a "kid" per say, I'm almost 20. I huess if you're like, 30-40 that can be considered a kid, lol.

And the book is really only inspired by the game, not about it, as most of what is in it has nothing to do with the game itself, it jsut happens in the same universe, lol.

But you have a point and are entitled to your opinion. As I've said before, I don't expect everyone to love or even like my book. I write because I love to, and the SO universe has become one of my favorite things to write.

As for outdated, not really, they still sell as much as they use to. Books won't ever really be replaced, probably just digitized, in which cause they'll be way overpriced if the price is the same, but thats a topic for another day.

If you just write because you you love too then money should not be a factor
Im 20 and i can hardly imagine someone my age ready to start publishing a book worth $15
If I were to shell out at that kind of money it ought to be a bestseller
Even bestseller paperbacks are cheaper than that
If you find that hard to believe
Look at this (http://www.amazon.com/Twilight-Saga-Book-1/dp/0316015849/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232910044&sr=8-2)
The Twilight Series is the most loved book series right now
Think its about tied with the Harry Potter series
And yet it only retails for $11
So why should i pay more money for a no name author and a no name book


PS. Thanks Snipe for correcting that and owning up to it

Okay, you would not buy the book at 15,00 USD. You also think that most books are way overpriced.

However, the average paperback, whether the author has talent or not, is marketed, and usually sold, in a range of about 11,00 USD to about 15,00 USD. We also have that a number of people here seemed to have express that a price in that range would be reasonable.

If Seither's book is not selling, he can always lower the price later, but he does not want to undercut himself right out of the gates. Is a man not entitled to reap the bounty of what he has sown? And, though of minor concern, undercutting the price would also somewhat decrease the perceived quality of the work.


Oh, and here is the thing about best-sellers. Full-time author needs to make a living wage and publishers need to make a reasonable profit. If this does not happen, neither is happy, and for good reason. A best-selling book, or a new book from a best-selling author, can be priced much lower because it is almost guaranteed to sell off the shelves like hotcakes. The author will sell ten to a hundred-times as many copies, so the profit margin can be significantly decreased.

Regular books do not have this luxury. Therefore, they are priced higher. This means that the average book, written by a full-time author or not, will naturally be priced higher.

Well, you covered like, everything I was going to say, thank you Chronos.

Work is almsot done, jsut a few touch ups, then jsut waiting on my cover artist to finish and we're good to go.

I wouldn't go over 14.95 USD

O.o that's an odd number to jsut throw out there, care to explain the reasoning (atm, price is set to $14.99)

Nah, its just that 95¢ is turning into the new 99¢.

psh, its weird. so much easier to say 99 instead of 95. 99 flows off the tounge better imho.

Seither, when is the expected release date of the book? Can't wait to read it :)

.95 is becoming the new .99, more modern.

It really does not have anything to do with the progression of civilization and/or technology. (Although, it does make Civilization 4 somewhat cheaper.)

It's just the progression of style. I do not know if I would call it "more modern," although 95¢ is becoming more popular than 99¢

well, i like 99 better, so meh.

as for a release date emi...I'm not sure. I'm close to done with the final draft, then it goes to my editor to make sure everything is spiff. My cover artist is still hard at work, but hopefully she'll finish at the same time I do.

I'm guessing a few weeks to a month, but don't hold me to it. As soon as I have more information I'll let you know.

 :)) maybe I should interject here a little note for you guys that maybe a bit confused.  seither just said he's finishing up the final draft, not the actual book.  the final draft is (what I guess) will go to the editor to see if he likes it, at that point it shall be revised for spelling and grammer and all that stuff.  so it actually coming out will probably be a bit longer.

speaking of which, seither... knowing you there's probably plenty of spelling errors for you to go over? what is it now, 15 errors per page?  or 150? :))

jk with you, though I am kinda interested in seeing what this 'revised story 1' shall be...  :21:

that sums it up ars. and its revised, so don't expect an entire new plot, just a plot that flows better and makes sense, lol.

also, not too many spelling errors now that I'm using microsoft office 2007, it has a better spell check.

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thanks...and welcome to the forum.

*stabs monkey with a ball point pen*

am i in it?


(looks up) wow, i sound stupid.


Well, I have to say: http://www.fictionpress.com/s/2626028/1

Writing seems to have become a popular past-time of retired spaceo players.  Emi, what do you put into the game to brainwash us?

BTW - fictionpress has this really nifty thing were you can get people to "beta read" your books/stories (for free) it's like a free editor. - A lot of them are the "Going for masters in English to become an editor and need experience to perfect the art" kind-a people.   If you’re interested in how ask me in msn. (I'll respond as soon as I can)

All 3 of the SO stories were once up on my fictionpress and were heavily reviewed and many suggestions given. fictionpress is a good site for writers.

And I made writing a popular passtime for SO players ;P

And yes lamma, you're in it, you were one of the big players in the 2nd story originally, I'm not completely redoing the entire series, god, that would take too long. I'm just improving parts and the overall flow of the series.

Update time: Editing is taking a while, but is NOT the reason for a significant delay, I actually slowed how fast I am editing down due to the fact that I lost my cover artist, sadly, the original has too much school work going on right now to do the cover, so I had to get a new one, though I'm not 100% confident in his abilities as I was her. So for a release date...I don't honestly know...no sooner than March for sure though.

Now, questions: Does anyone here have significant spacescape photoshop skills? and 2, what would you guys think a good cover would look like? I want some input (Note, this will NOT affect the cover the current artist is working on, just if i go with someone else/drop this guy).

reviewed maybe monkey - but have you EVER used the Beta reading option.  - I got 2 guys with masters in english going to be editiors editing my paper - thats pretty much a pro edititor already.  and DANG they are good.

by reviewed i meant the beta, lol. i had 3 guys before i pulled it off for publication and it helped a lot. A LOT of the revisions were things they pointed out for changing.

oh, well i got 4 lol

2 for grammar and 2 for other improvments.. its nice :D

ya it is nice, helps out a lot.

i will only release the rights of Smee, if i get each book with a signature from you monkey, also id be willing to pay for shipping ahahah.

Smee  :12: