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How defence affects ship performance? (increase hitpoints, absorb?)

Defense acts as fleet hitpoints, as the defense is multiplied by the number of ships in the fleet. I do not know how the swarm bonus affects defence, if at all.

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Brief example of defense:

Let's take a fleet of 1000 ships with 100 defense.
1000 * 100 = 100000 defense.

However as defense will take 10 times the amount of damage as the number of points...
100000 defense * 10 damage/defense = 1000000 damage

So with this example after 1000000 (1 million) damage is done the damage will start affecting hitpoints.

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The cost ratio between hitpoints and defense on a special system (after it becomes linear) is 50 hitpoints to 1 defense.

As for the order of things that effect attack. It is posted in the shield FAQ a little ways down the list of topics.

so the defence calculated ( in your post 100000) will be "awarded" to every ship? or is this defence global?(evey ship gets the number displayed ie. 100)

Basically, the total defense is subtracted from the total damage and then they proceed as normal.

i.e. Guy does 30,000 damage, Dude has 100 defense and 10 ships.

Dude's total defense is 100 * 10 = 1.000, and each defense point is worth 10 attack, so you got 10.000. Subtract Dude's 10,000 from Guy's 30.000 and you get 20.000, 20.000 is now the new damage and they continue into the damage vs. hitpoints stage (ships lost = damage / hitpoints, I believe).

In short, no, the defense is only applied to the fleet as a whole. Each fleet only needs to get past the defense once.

here's something weird:

i made a ship with about 100,000,000 defence, and 2,000,000 HP, i attack dude's fleet (say's one in the ranking page), dude's attack - 53,000,000 , piece of cake i thought... here comes the ugly part.

my fleets was destroyed!

how did a 53M ship get past the 1002M worth of ship HP?

The displayed attack is per ship.

Ya, people often make that mistake.


... Wait, are you talking about his "Power" that's displayed in the ranking? 'Cause that has next to nothing to do with the actual attack of his fleets.


Oh, and if you're going to make a really big ship, it's best to just use hitpoints. Because, unless you're going to have a lot of them, like hundreds, defense looses it's advantage.

No, he means that the ranking page said the guy had 1 ship. Here's what may have happened

He may have recently bought more of that ship
He may have recently reserved/unreserved ships

The ranking page takes a good while to update sometimes, due to cookies and cache updating. Also, one way he could have destroyed your fleet with that 1 ship with that low attack is that you misread how much defence you had or how much attack he had. What's the name of your ship that you used, and how much does it cost (I can look through and see what might have happened).

i think i deleted it, but im sure i didnt misread my defence or his attack, i have the log, it was against deezee(#5088), date/time 2006-05-28 02:01:51

I recently attacked someone with 1 ship with 27 mil attack. My swarm had 54 mil total defense yet I lost ships.

Could be the the ship count is off. Or this (http://www.forum.spaceodyssey.biz/index.php?topic=475.0) could of happened

You say swarm, which means you used more then 1 ship, right? Then that value you got of your number of ships x their individual total defence doesn't matter. example:

You
Ship A
100 ships
500 attack each
1000 health each

Enemy
Ship B
1 ship
1200 attack
3000 health

So he attacks you, and does 1200 damage to your fleet Ship A. Since each ship has 1000 health, you lose 1 ship, but you still destroy his ship, as your combined attack is more then his 1 ships health (you do 5000 damage, but the ship only has 3000, so it shows 3000 damage done and he loses the ship). This is basically what happened. Your combined defence only matters if the whole fleet is destroyed. But you can still lose individual ships if an attack does more then their own total defense, not the combined total. Understand now?

He was saying that he had twice as defense as the guy had attack, but he still lost ships.

attack get multiplied too tho

The guy had one ship.

so what you are saying is defence only works if the whole fleet is getting destroyed?, if so then why didn't my defence work at that time?

0o

Hmm... I have no clue what Luffy meant by what he said, but the opposing fleets have to get through your combined defense before they can hurt your ships. Or, at least, that's what I've been led to believe my entire time here.

Chronos, our understanding is the same.

To my understanding defense is basically a global fleet hitpoint pool, that protects the fleet from damage until it is penetrated. At which point the individual ships hitpoints is affected.

K. Here's what he's saying (I think...)
The global defense is only applied if the whole fleet is destroyed. So if you only destroy part of his fleet, then your defense is only per ship and not as a whole.

>_<

No, Dragonlings, that is not how it works.

Hm.. well, it's been a while and frankly, I'd stick with big ships and no defense. How many DDays have you been through?

Guys, i have more experience. If a ship has 1 defense (which will absorb 10 damage) and 10 hp, and you have ten of them, then there is 200 total defense and hp to go through for ALL the ships, but only 20 per ship. Now, if an enemy ship does 20 damage, it destroys 1 ship. This is how it was last round as should still be to my knowledge. Ask another veteran and see what they say.

... Wouldn't that make the per-ship damage points irrelevant to the ship count?

'Cause ((10dn + hn)/n = 10d + n).

ok, don't go all mathy on me, I suck at math.

From what I understand, you're saying that you take the defense (d) and multiply it by the effect (10) to get (d * 10), multiply it by the number of ships (n) to get (d * 10 * n). Then you take the number of hitpoints (h) and multiply by the number of ships (n) to get (h * n) and add it to the defense effect (d * 10 * n) to get ((d * 10 * n) + (h * n)). Then you divide the result evenly among the number of ships (n) to get (((d * 10 * n) + (h * n)) / n). Which, through the distributive property and simplification†, is equal to (d*10 + h).

(A.K.A., The total of the fleets defense and hitpoints divided evenly among the ships.)

So you just add the ship's defense effect to the ship's hitpoints to get the total damage points it can stand. Which means that the amount of damage points a ship can stand is irrelevant to its fleet's ship count.

Of course, this is all based on the assumption that I know what you're trying to say.




†
 = (((d * 10 * n) + (h * n)) / n)
 = ((n(d * 10) + n(h)) / n)
 = (n((d * 10) + (h)) / n)
 = (((d * 10) + (h)) * (n / n))
 = (((d * 10) + (h)) * 1)
 = ((d * 10) + (h))

I get the feeling i'm wrong about defense and how it works, just from how complicated that math looks. So let's go with what you guys were saying. (I do know that hp is per ship though, because if you take enough damage to your hp, but not enough to destroy them all, you lose some of your ships.

I'm pretty sure it goes through def for all ships first (though my memory may be hazy on this).  If I remember correctly, I once tried a swarmer with only def (maybe a few hp, but not much, really).  It survived a while, then one mission...*poof*

Anyway, it seemed to take away the whole fleet's defence, then eliminate hp ship by ship.

Yea, I think that's it. Sounds right anyway.

That's what I was always led to believe.

Eh, I don't know what I was thinking. I'm a good player, but I don't know all the math stuff involved here, lol.

You don't have to bother with the math...

That's why we let Chronos post.

lol, exactly Charmuska, exactly. Oh, btw, how did you come up with the name Charmuska?

Hey, I'm good with math too.

Yes, but he posts more, lol.

Question
If a swarm attacks a big ship, does each ship have to pass through the defense or just once?

The fleet as a whole busts through the enemy fleet's defence (so, just once).  Otherwise, swarmers would be incredibly useless.

True. Thanks

Charmuska, you never answered my question, but yes, he is right dragonlings....though swarmers are still pretty useless now. Blame Tinyman and all the problems it caused.