Forum - Space Odyssey MMORPG - a massive free online space game

I need some comments if this is reasonable or not.

- 20% of assets (mothership credits value) instead of 20% power in last 24 hours to enter nebula
- Warp evade settings: "Always try" set to default, "Don't try if friendly station"

- Limit number of attacks between two commanders in 24 hours, excluding counter attacks:
Example: Cmd X attacks Cmd Y 10 times. Cmd Y makes 10 counter-attacks and attacks 10 times. Cmd X makes 10 counter attacks.

- Increase protection time if defender lost more then 20% of assets in the last attack.
Example: Lost a total of 50% of assets in the last 24 hours, get 50/20 * 24 = 60 hours of protection.

Thank you.

Would ruin the entire use of powerships for defence tactics. It would improve pvp as now your always sure to hit someone really hard. But would change the entire game. And makes it bad to have a large base power as then you need to lose way more power to get a neb.


Dont know what this has to do with nebula fix. And for main almost nobody has stations.


Alt/buddy nebbing is done in one attack so this is again of no use for the nebula fix, it will only mean if you try to board someone and you would need more then 10 attacks you simply cant. Cannot find any usefull use for this change? Does it work in DDay researchers?


Day 1 you have no credits no base power you got nothing.... You lose 75% of your credit assest in one attack..... 3 days in nebula. By then the credits lost is only a fraction of what you have now. This rule will just ask for abuse and again does not contribute to a real use to fix something or any other use I can see.

yeah i'm not sure what needs to be done.. some of those ideas sound a bit extreme but im glad its getting looked into

The mothership credit value, takes the worth of everything right, credits workers ships etc?

What about reserved ships? Will they still count. Like if I reserve my 5 mains they are worth more then the rest I have so people can just kill me over and over again because my reserves give me such a high credit value.

And otherwise you could just reserve your ships and then give yourself a 3 day nebula.

Can come up with even more ways to abuse it.... if you want to know them message me Sir Emi

I know this would change the galaxy attacks, but if you make it so that you can't hit 200% or higher of your power in galaxy, that way at least you can't use alts to neb you unless they stay active and rise in power aswell, I know you can still easily neb yourself at the start of the round this way, and you can still ask another guy near you in ranks to hit you, but at least no alts can be used (it's a start and you have to start somewhere)

Asset value is the worth of you mothership in credits, everything that is counted into total power has a credit value, but reserve fleet are not counted into total power and they won't be counted into the assets, they are reserve.

If we do the asset calculations for the nebula, there will be massive farming by raiding segments / secret base if you don't make limits on attacks / day.

An increased neb protection in the first days may be a good thing but just in case there will be a lower power limit, for example a point based system where each 1% and over 50 mil credits per % lost over the 20% can count as additional % to the 24 h protection

to get rid of alt nebbing why not just stop people attacking people on the same IP address unless they can prove they are using a shared IP address. Ok granted it will mean places like college/uni/school you might not be able to attack a friend in an allaince you are at war with but would irradicate alt nebbing unless you have a special permission to do so then it can be monitored.

Don't wanna sound rude, but then I can just ask AMI to use her alt to hit me, and I'll use my alt to hit her main..
That doesn't fix anything

ok it wont get rid of you going to someone else and asking them to neb you, i meant you using your own alt and nebbing yourself.

Sir Emi when I have time I'll write you a message how this is easily abused. Not gonna post it.


And IP blocks wont work I can switch IP in 10 seconds ;)

hmm alt nebbing.. thats simple to fix.. simply punish the people who are caught doing it even once.. severaly.. oh, 5  day ban for every time you alt neb..

sure people will still try to do it.. but if you get caught for 1 offence.. and busted for 5 days (that could completly ruin your rank..) people would very quickly lose intrest in doing it.. you just got to make the risks more noticeable than the rewards..

people wont steal 20$ from a store when they know the store has camera's, ID's everyone and fines you 200$ for stealing with a 90% capture rate..

it does make me laugh how a lot of people are saying how wrong it is when i no they have done it :))

ip monitoring / bans / punishing does not get rid of the problem, can we focus on finding a solution that does not involve 3 fulltime admin jobs please :) We had the same problem with royalty and now it works pretty nicely.

How about this - you can't attack someone with more than 250% your power unless on a counter, and you can't attack someone with less than 10% your power unless on a counter attack. That way you can't do alt nebbing in the galaxy.

And if someone gets caught alt nebbing, ban for 3 days and reset both accounts :-)

There - pships can still be used, so the game isn't drastically changed, you can still attack everyone you would legitimately attack anyway, and alt/self nebbing is greatly limited.

Also I think the donation rate should be lowered a bit, if someone joined and upgraded to gold they could easily pull into first right now, it's kinda unbalanced.

u could just as easily give ur alt a load of pships and make them = to ur power.

i think that on wars at least, where there are fewer but more devastating attacks, all attacks where no segs are recieved/taken should be looked into. most people know who the commanders who buddy are.

how about like making it where you can only attack so much more than your power.. i mean  if you were chillin in space with some ships of yours and you see someone 300% your power.. your not gonna go attack them..

unless you al bhed, remember he whacked some huge people last round.
honestly i don't think it can be fixed with out ruining the whole thing. i don think self neb is such a big deal. it's not like the people who do it get to finish in the top anyway. everyone knows who does it.

- 20% of assets (mothership credits value) instead of 20% power in last 24 hours to enter nebula

I don't think this will help.


- Warp evade settings: "Always try" set to default, "Don't try if friendly station"


I understand what you are doing with this but if they want to alt neb they will just go in and change it.


- Limit number of attacks between two commanders in 24 hours, excluding counter attacks:
Example: Cmd X attacks Cmd Y 10 times. Cmd Y makes 10 counter-attacks and attacks 10 times. Cmd X makes 10 counter attacks.


While this won't really stop alt nebbing it would be nice because a lot of noobs get reamed by experianced players and it really turns them off the game fast, I think 6 attacks and that includes base raids would be good, it won't hurt the good players at all because they don't need that many attacks to accomplish a good hit (turn it off for dday)


- Increase protection time if defender lost more then 20% of assets in the last attack.
Example: Lost a total of 50% of assets in the last 24 hours, get 50/20 * 24 = 60 hours of protection.


This seems to me would have the exact opposite effect of what you wish to do while there are times that you do get hit constantly the neb should get shorter when you are in it everyday and I would like to see the remote attacks limited to a range of less than the entire galaxy maybe to within 200 turns distance if you want to hit someone else then you have to move.(turn it off for dday)


Lastly I suppose limiting how high above your power can be attacked will help some at least and combined with nebs getting shorter may help a lot.(turn it off for dday) No way to be sure without trying it.

Isn't al bhed lamma's alt?

lamma has his pass but it's not lamma's originally, but don't change the subject lol :P

But I think most people agree about the fact that it should be changed at least that you can attack everyonn above you in ranks with galaxy hitting.. Make it to 300% or something (unless counter of course)

OK - glad I caught this thread.

Emi  - we went through this with a bunch of guys on the forums already.

I actually suggested neb based on credit cost, Tz immediately pointed out that you would no longer be able to use PShips on MAIN or attack swarmers on WARS to defend - both integral to the game now - and both reduce the costs of combat and entering neb.

So - Im totally opposed to basing it off credit costs.

Diminishing returns for neb was the best suggestion for SOWARS - there is a thread posted on it.  I think it would work fine on MAIN as well - however on SOMAIN it might be neccessary to make some additional changes.


Im not 100% sure what you mean by this;

- Warp evade settings: "Always try" set to default, "Don't try if friendly station"

I think you mean, ignore the "Always try to Warp" instruction if you're on your own base?  I dont like that - I would like to try to warp regardless if Im on my base or not, no exceptions.

On main diminishing nebula wont wor because there you can attack someone directly when he gets out of neb... you dont have to find them in space.

Ya FTP - understood - I think it might need a different approach for each server - on WARS you cant just wily nily land attacks - so its extremely unlikely that diminishing returns will kick in unless neb is abused.

For SOMAIN - I dont know the answer - credit cost might be a valid fix there .. please dont do that to WARS server though.

i agree that something needs to be done but geez, emi im sorry m8 i dont agree with any of the ideas you have put forward, i dont have any suggestions of my own 2 put forward but i would not b thrilled if any of those chages were implemented

im not experienced enough on the main server to know what is best there, but the diminishing returns for wars seems like it has no holes in it

For SOMAIN - I think maybe if you used cash costs, but lowered the amount of the cost to say 5% rather than 20% it might work - 5% of your total value each day might be enough?  Maybe 10%?

If the total was lower than 20%, then something like Phsips could be used - lower cost expendable ships at the front of your fleets to take the hit - maybe swarmers would become more popular - they are a bit more expensive than Pships - but also provide a lot of attack power.  Personally I think swarmers are far superior - they actually provide real protection from an attack - not just a sure loss and entry to neb.

By the way, Im strictly talking about SOMAIN - the best proposal for WARS so far is diminishing returns, unless someone has a new and brilliant idea - then its the only way to go.

depends on what swarmers ur talking about and how u use them. swarmers on the main server would act like pships currently, but not as well. say someone attacks u and destroys a small percentage of ur swarmers, u dont get a neb and those swarmers may not be above ur main super now.

How about this then-if the cost of attacking fleets is less than 5-10% of defender's then the defender fleet is the first to attack, and it does not go into  nebula if it looses, which I would doubt seriously. Although it would be useless at the start, still, a suggestion.

it would be simpler to just get rid of alts altogether

No, getting rid of alts is very complicated what with IP sharing, etc.

I like the diminishing returns - how about you lose all interest + worker growth while in a nebula? That way you lose a lot of you stay in a nebula a ton of time, and also puts another incentive on putting someone else in a neb (PvP) :-)

This sounds like a good idea, we could stop interest / growth while in nebula whitout affecting the defender too much... in the short term.

Not really I was in neb for 10 days not long ago and I never buddy or alt neb I just got hit everyday for a while from galaxy attacks if you are going to take my growth because of that you have to at least restrict the radius of galaxy attacks or I can never get back on my feet.

Just add a line or 2 of code.

If Neb = YES and Segs = same as it was before then FLAG Attacker.

If FLAGed attacker = same as any of the last 5 FLAGGED attackers then Email Emi.

~~~~

Add more code so a newly created player cannot attack or be attacked for the first 10 days.

~~~~

A bit of code should cut down on the admin time required quite significantly.

I don't think you can alter the Neb mechanic so its effective on SO Main and SO Wars at the same time.

I think the new player attack limit thing would be good, but it would have to be allowed that they can still do missions etc.  Otherwise newbies would have a hard time. lol

This was another idea that we spoke about on the forums - I think this might not be too bad for SOMAIN? (for WARS, simply use diminishing returns please)- you would need to add in a button that would allow a player to "Return from the Nebula" (cancel neb).

meh just attack some one, that gets rid of ur neb :D easyer then making a button :D

I agree - two different solututions are required due to the potential frequency of attacks.

New round starts, I create an alt the 3rd day, I start with about 5000 turns or something and grow immediatelly to the top within 2 days and I'm still safe for another 8 days, so this won't work properly..

And if you want to LEAVE a nebula, you can either:
- Wait the full 24 hours
- Attack someone (galaxy / remote assault / bounty) (not counter)
- Start Council Protection Mode, and leave it immediatelly... (so this is that button acturly)

Oh yeah the fix that I suggested with the growth + interest loss was only for WARS, on main there are a lot more legitimate nebulas :-)

So how about:
For WARS you lose all your interest and worker growth while in a nebula, but you can leave the nebula any time (put a in a button at the secret asteroid base?)

For Main your interest and worker growth get halved while you are in a nebula, but you can also leave the nebula at any time (again, a button at the secret asteroid base?)

Once you leave the nebula you can't go back into it (unless you are attacked again and lose enough to return to the neb)

This way there is more PvP incentive on BOTH servers, and only the abusers will be severely punished by losses.

ok how bout this, basically what blak said just in a bit more detail

dimishing returns
lose worker GROWTH, but NOT production. sometimes that extra 24 hours of cred production makes the difference between a successfull counterattack and a non successful one.

For SO main I think getting rid of ALL growth, production and interest would be a solution.

For SO wars this could heaily damage players and I would still suggested dimishing returns

all i know is something needs to be done soon...


i have a commander following me around the galaxy in a buddy-neb and intelling me and offering my coords on public chat, trying to get someone else to attack me because he is too much of a ... to himself.

if thats not exploiting then i dont know what is

could some one please enlighten me as to why such a big deal is made of this? on main very few people do this and those that do cannot hurt others growth nor can they finish very high cause everyone kill them on dday. so why screw with a good working game system? i can see this causing one huge debacle of massive imbalance and disorder. Why fix what is not broken?

its a big problem on the wars server

Sir Emi  I am all for fixing this neb thing.  we all know that being in CP or council protection dotn hurt anyone they can stsill grow and keep growing by doing missions and get turns from Black holes and trun items.  thus more limits need to be put on this.  also this self neb or buddy nebing is at ridculous levels.  that is the reason I have not been playing.  I have since before it was implemented voiced my opinion on this subject.  I am for the destruction of real assests being the rule for a neb.  I am against Pships even though I was the creator of some of the first ones.  I say we leave the 20% fleet power but also add in the 10% of total assets.  This makes buddy nebbing actually costly a bit.  and also to keep people from wanting to be in a neb.  while in a neb your turn growth is halved.

Frank if you make turn growth half in neb. It would be a disaster to get a neb because turns = income.

yea it would ruin it for those that get attacked normally, its just punishing them more for being attacked, how would that possibly work

What about 20% power and 10% assets to enter nebula, this could be a good idea... would make you invest some more in the pships, maybe make them swarmers to cost a bit more but it would be more fair I think.

I could make this for SO WARS first and leave it for a few days to see how it goes.

Whats wrong with the diminishing return idea for SO wars seems everyone seems to favor it for SO WARS?

Umm, don't change the way you enter Neb on SO Wars.

Just its length, as per the diminishing returns thread.

I dunno even what you mean by saying 10% assets ... How did you work out what an asset was?

I'm against changing the rules at all ... Re writing the rules to suit a particular playstyle after the game has commenced is dumb. Sure, modify or tweak to fix a loophole, but change the rules mid game? No thank you.

i agree
i think everyone has agreed that for wars diminishing returns are best

I thought the growth + interest loss sounded good, someone post the link to the diminishing returns thread please?

The diminishing returns may generate lots of bugs and may also take a lot of time to code / test.

This is what assets are:

Credits + Secret Base Credits + Secret Base Workers + Segments * 1.000.000
+
Fleet Cost * Ship Numbers + Fleet Marines (Fleets not in reserve)
=
Total assets

Once I do the 10% assets, I'll run a few tests leaving the old system, while loging neb entries with assets / power to see if they are a viable option.

The idea is to enter the nebulae if the commander lost 20% of total power & 10% of total assets in the last 24 hours. You could lose power in one attack, then lose assets in another and if the conditions are meet you can enter the nebulae. Damage is cumulated with each attack, as it always was.

emi, im sure if you simply enforced the rules you wouldnt have the problem in the first place.. dont be afraid to ban someone.. if they get reported, i doubt it will take more than 2-3 minunets to look up there account.. and find they are cheating..

and if your lazy try to add a "report abuse" botton to the game, and have a program that will automaticaly cheak for attacks on the same IP adress from differnt accounts. and ban accordinly...

yeah lamma. exactly. why "fix" something that isn't broken. it's just begging trouble. everyone knows who hides in the misgotten nebs.

Fleet marines shouldnt be counted as assest as selfnebbers/buddy nebbers dont use marines they would even get rewarded for not using them because of cheaper nebula's

Your thinking backwards FTP. 

If marines arent counted as assets, then you can stack up the marines to lower you apparent net worth - spending credits that disappear from your balance sheet, thus making it cheaper to enter neb. 

If marines are counted, then your net worth stays the same, your converting credits into marines - so your thinking is in reverse.

I think what he means to say is that: when you have marines, you don't need a nebula... :sweat
As most people go in a nebula 'cus they don't have marines :14:

Emi -

Your proposed fix changes how ships function, it changes attack and defensive strategies.

Id rather handle some bugs and a delay for the right fix than get something that alters the game so dramatically.

Credits + Secret Base Credits + Secret Base Workers + Segments * 1.000.000
+
Fleet Cost * Ship Numbers + Fleet Marines (Fleets not in reserve)
=
Total assets

My total Assets are 1 Quintillion .... My Fleets are worth 100 Trillion.

My Entire Fleet could be destroyed and I still wouldn't be in a Nebula.

~~~~~~~

I like the reporting idea better.

i have to go with the above even if i were to pump every credit i own into ships i would not be in a neb unless i lose everything.

growth and interest loss  :12:

i am speaking for SOmain only. (sowars is a different situation) if you involve assets in neb on main you will make it impossible for us to protect our mains. it will subject mains to unlimited boarding attempts(since marines are only resupplied through mothership credits) till they are destroyed by lack of marines. this means everyone but the most powerful players will have to constantly reserve and unreserve mains in hopes of protecting them, which really isn't cost effective.

10% Total Assests is a horrendous idea... consider a cost percentage based on the active fleet (including marines) in conjuction with the 20% Commander Power.

Either way, it's going to punish the commander with highly optimized ships and benefit the inefficient ship designs... but not to the degree that total fleet loss is the only chance of getting into a neb.

Diminishing nebulae update (SO WARS)

http://forum.spaceo.net/index.php/topic,3602.0.html

Let's look at it this way:

We want people to stop nebbing themselfes: how's that possible:
A. You have to lose more to get into a nebula.. (change HOW to get a neb)
B. You have to get less of something (growth / interest / credit production) when in a nebula... (change when you're IN a neb)

If you will make A work.. That means indeed that powerships will have NO work at all anymore.. Not even just to protect your main ships...
If you let B work, it won't be fair for the people who just started and don't know exactly what to do, and will always be attacked and in a nebula...

These both things are not good solutions, only solution I saw (that came a bit close) is indeed to stop letting an alt hit a main through galaxy, which is by changing the % you can hit of yourself, and come on.. if you see a guy with 300% in galaxy, you don't think: hm... I'll try and hit him and see if I get lucky and capture a few of his ships.. No, you would just report his position, and go to another planet...

i completely agree with abi and ive said it all along.. just need limits on that and make it against tos.. if people get caught doing it set them back a ways

New players won't be hampered by growth or interest loss, because they don't have enough workers or credits to get large gains from interest and growth, and I am speaking for wars only so they won't always be in a neb. Growth and Interest loss for wars works great, it will be enough of a setback to slowly put the alt nebbers behind the fair players, and it won't hamper legitimate nebulas very much. Obviously this is not the best choice for main server as there are many more legitimate nebulas.