Forum - Space Odyssey MMORPG - a massive free online space game

?!?!?

i log on to find myself in the allaince named Dooms Day Defenders 2 yet im pretty dam sure that noone got onto my account and i wasnt there the day before? what happened.. Emi i dont care if you dont like how active players decided to take over an inactive allaince though a hostile takeover, but it happened. and like it or not were all okay with it. if Foo wants his own allaince he has all the power to make his own. but going to you? and for what.. so you can force all our accounts into another allaince, force a name change without telling us, then re-create DDD so that you can give Foo back the leadership?

hey Emi if you dont want leadership of allainces to switch there is an easy way to simply make it eaither not possible at all or only by the choice of the current leader.. dont leave the option of Mutiny avaible.. then create a fake allaince cause you feal sorry for the booted allaince leader and let him back into his alliance while switching the name of the old one..

~DDD Forever~ the Real DDD (oh wait i cant say that anymore right?)

Emi, if you think this is about kicking WoW out of DDD  its not, simply place him back in, kicking him was a complete accident and if it could be helped we would let him back into the allaince.. not to mention of WoW ever did start to play again.. we would still vote him leader, its his allaince.

i find this behaviour (and the allowing of this behavior) appaulling. what happened to DDD was well within the mechanics of the game, including the ejection of any player by the leader (not excluding WoW). renaming the alliance because someone else was upset, was a gross abuse of power and totally uncalled for.

what can i expect next... upsetting the wrong person and finding my account deleted?

In game power struggles are not solved by someone exercising admin rights.

Admin should exercise kick/ban for violating TOS, fixing bugs, extending the game, etc. 

I like this game, especially the work that went into creating the formulas.  Sir Emi has created an amazing game.  And I have read around 70 - 80 % of the forums, the guide, visited alliance websites, and have not seen this abuse before.

It seems that someone has pulled off a Trojan Horse, and someone has gone to admin rights to fix it.  Bad policy, let the ingame mechanics work themselves out.

I just don't want vote everyday, put time, energy and a gold account, to find out someone can go whine to the admin and send me down the road.  Waste of my time.  I would like the game put back the way it was and let the alliance work itself out.  Knowing that following the rules, lets one play their game as they learn it.

Otherwise post in the TOS, admin staff are subject to rewrite your alliance anytime anyone comes whining to them, or maybe even rewrite your account or delete it.   Not a slippery slope I want to play in.

This is bull, if an alliance mutinied they must have done it for a reason, to go back and change the name of the alliance to DDD2 is low. Bravo, just another thing people can get really angry with. Emi, in doing this you could risk losing some really great players, WoW is always going to be the leader of DDD, but until the day he does actually come back - If ever - The leadership should stay with whoever was rightfully voted.

the mutiny shouldn't be a matter for admin. if commanders pull a coup d'tat its strictly a game play matter not game rules, since mutinies are allowed by the rules and mechanics of the game. no rules were broken and the game not subverted so......... im not saying i condone or support mutinies in general, but they are allowed and part of the game.

In a game such as this there are many possibility. Things can be used for different purposes, which leads to tactic. But some possibilities are not meant to be there, some buttons have designed purpose, but can be used for other things.

Anyone here can remember the bug that if you clicked on the attack button twice before you did an encounter you would get paid out twice..... Or when the cost calculator made it possible you could do missions with no ships at all and the cost calculator would block out almost all enemy fleets. And it still gave you a huge reward. I could go on by naming examples like this. All examples of possibility's that this game had, but were not meant for this use.

In my opinion this option to vote for your leader was designed so that if a leader would want to leave you could get another leader, that if your leader went inactive you could get another leader, if your leader made bad calls you could get another leader or if you as alliance did not agree with your leader you could get another leader.

Now I ask you do you think this possibility to vote was created so that when one alliance wishes to take over another, just to get rid of another player from that alliance, to kick their normal leader out of his own alliance. They could ask to join and make a planned takeover of the alliance to achieve this single goal? In my opinion this was not were the button was made for and this is why I support this change. I think just like in my examples of the bugs this is not the purpose of the votes.

Those members from elites were not even a week in DDD, some less than a day. And Lamma why you wanted this? Don’t tell me you had another reason than to kick FOO out to piss him off and get yourself in DDD. I doubt you were even seriously planning to play.



All these angry reactions are because you got such a brilliant idea on the edges of what was possible, but still a brilliant plan to max out in one day using a loophole that is possible is just as bad as this.

FTP

Good Job Sir Emi

PS: Flame me if you like, you can blacken me, you can hate me but you can never change me.

in your self-righteous attempt to condone the action implimented, you have taken the cause leading to the outcome out of context. the bugs you have attempted to site for justification were serious errors in coding and greatly affected gameplay. what has happened to the alliance is a possible outcome on any ship (sea or space). as for who was ejected, as irrelivant as it is, you did suggest inactive players and some of them were. but who do you think you are, as you are not in this alliance. in reality, it's not any of your business.

By posting anything in a general discussion on the forums, you make it a general topic. And there for it is my business. If you guys did not want people outside of your own alliance to discuss these matters you shouldn’t have made a post about it.

Second if two countries in the world have a problem, do you think the other countries sit back and do nothing. Just look to anything. Even the Danish comics about Muslims were discussed by allot of countries and you say it’s none of their business. If things happens in other alliances especially if Lammalord makes a post about it to celebrate how he tricked ABI, I do have an opinion about it and it is my business.

And for your example that this good happen anywhere on a ship. Let’s see we have our ship which is from country A, then some people from country B get on the ship and just throw overboard the people of A and then claim the ship. This is just stealing the ship. Only now it’s the entire country that gets stolen. I doubt that would be something you would want in the game as what you reach with this you gain that alliance name. Except that there would be no reason to do this.

Let me ask you why did you do it? I suppose because you were asked to.

And where did I take the cause leading to the outcome out of context I just said how I observed what happened.

And as last I referred to the bugs to get a good example that a possibility in a game does not automatically mean it should be allowed to be used. It is common to use extreme examples to make your point.

yeah, but it is also a leaders responsibility to think about who she is letting in the alliance and why, to prevent infiltration and takeover. infiltration and takeover are a real part of wars cold and hot. i guess there are reasons on both viewpoints. as an alliance leader i always have in the back of my head the possibility of people who want to get rid of me and my alliance may try just such a maneuver. which is why there are people who i will never allow to join/rejoin my alliance.




                                                               :spider2:

and i do believe that anything that happens in game affecting a whole alliance is of interest to and everyones business.

And to the example in real wars you can take over other countries

The it has the use of gaining their resources, their defenses etc. Here it is only to steal an alliance name. If someone would steal AoF from me they would only steal that name from me. They won’t steal anything else, no people, no resources nothing just a name. I could make a new alliance and get my members back.

This has no worth to the game, it is only a possibility to ruin someone else's day. As for me AoF, I made AoF and I would hate to lose it.

are you going to keep compareing this to 'the real world' just to let you know FTP this IS a game. and like it or not that mutnity chance WAS an option in the game.. and not something hidden that you had to do a dozen things to work or have a certain kind of internet speed..

the "push the botton twise" thing only worked with dial-up and the other one only worked when you had a certain kind of 10 fleets with a certain number of ships in each fleet designed in a certain way. they were not there and they were not obvious, the munity was obvious dont think because noone ever tried and was sucessful that its a loophole...

just like when lightseeker first started making 1 big ship rather than everyone elses "swarms" its not abuse, just something never tried before.. ABI should of watched who went into his allaince. and should of kept a weary eye on who to trust.. if i reamber right it was YOU that told me you warned ABI not to trust nightshadow.. it was his fault for trusting someone who was obviously schemeing something... it wasnt even well hidden all players sympathetic to one person joining an allaince as he does? people whom have no loyaty to you??



And off that, thanks for everyones support in this matter, im not used to everyone actally agreeing with me, useally im the one lone voice against the crowds of millions.. this time emi, the tide has turned.

as FTP says " Here it is only to steal an alliance name. If someone would steal AoF from me they would only steal that name from me."
the name DDD was taken fair and square, it should remain with those who took it, and the other alliance should be DDD2.

                                                                                                           :spider2:

Lamma I was so looking forward to your response. Well first things first.

First accusation - If you read carefully I have not done a single comparison to the real world in my first post. I think crimsom smear got the real world in with his ships example and losted used a real world example and I merely defended my point against it. So sorry this is a game but if I would shoot down all arguments comparison with the real world you would blame me for dodging arguments.

And for hidden options or not, the tinymen wasn’t hidden but it got fixed as it wasn’t supposed to be like that. When the boarding became better, it got scaled down because it was not supposed to be that good. And I tried the multiple reward thingy on my high-speed ADSL, it worked as well ;) nothing to do with dial up.

Of course I do not say it is a bad thing or that it is not supposed to work like that, merely that I think it's not supposed to work like that and that I think it’s a bad thing. And from Emi's actions supporting my opinion I assume he agrees with this. Same as the recent topics has been opened for people who wish the mass mission boarding back.

Yes ABI asked me if nighty would ever do such thing, and I told him you did never know with Nighty. And that when nighty gives you his word, it doesn’t mean anything because nighty lies when it’s good for him. You cannot blame me for saying this looking at what happened between me and nighty this round.

EDIT:
@losted, my argument was that stealing a name serves no purpose except to piss off others

Actually over half the accounts were under control of NightShadow, most of them are his alts or accounts he can control.
Silent Assassin, Exile, jgcampbell300 to name a few accounts he has control of

Again I put forward the request to emi to end the alternate abuse in this game, this isn't the first problem we've had with alts and it won't be the last either.

he may of been known to use thouse account, but it dosnt mean its his..

and on that line wouldnt it be 'alt abuse' for ABI and Foo to place several alts into an allaince to vote for themselfs purely to hold the allaince?

and unless told other wise blak you can cheak the IP adresses to every account that joined that allaince before the take over.. there was no abuse of alts no matter how much you want to say that.

FTP i dont want all your "moral" talk what happpened happened, and sure stealing a name of an allaince has its soul proupus to piss someone off.. but what has something i done in this game not have that as the ultiment goal? sure its a dirty trick FTP, but liget none the less, and no matter how much you slim few dislike the DDD take over odds are majority of you dont like it just because you eaither have some personal problems with one of the members that were involved or you disagree just to be a differnt voice.

[EDITED FOR LANGUAGE BY ZEPHYRBLADE]

Please refrain from flaming and inapproprite language.  :19:

Honestly, ABI should've screened the applicants as a leader to safeguard his holdings as Losted mentioned.

I have nothing against ABI (or anyone else in this game) and have not seen any ill feelings on the alliance boards from him. I enjoy being part of alliance with people as highly regarded (and despised) as most of the people there, and I feel priviledged to be with them.

As FTP mentioned, it is just a name and does not affect gameplay as the coding errors previously stated. If what happened truely was not part of the mechanics of the game, this was not the appropriate way to handle it and that is the point that I'm trying to make.

Granted, what happened was sneaky... what FTP facilitated was an under-handed abuse of his relationship with Sir Emi. I personally feel that it should have been looked into, before making rash decisions about an incident that does not exploit coding errors that grossly effect gameplay.

It was underhanded, and it worked.  Mutiny has and always will be around.  Play risk with me.......:)

I only have one problem with this whole scenario.  Admin Rights used to cheat in someone's favor.  These TOS say that cheating will be reason to delete and ban,  whoever(Sir Emi or another admin cheated - Period)   Hey ban me for calling it, but if you wipe out someones hard work whether they are righteous or scum, because they played better than someone else.  That is actually worse than cheating.  Admins are supposed to be above reproach.  Here are the TOS  -  show me how this mutiny was cheating.  NO bug exploits, etc.   If this is what this game is about -  favoritism  - well ?


Terms and conditions of Space Odyssey     
         
     Fair play   
        Players who try to manipulate the rules and/or use loopholes in them may be deleted from the game. Each case will be looked at separately by the Space Odyssey team, before a decision is made.   
         
     Playing fairly and Honestly   
        Space Odyssey upholds high standards of moral behavior. Any player who is caught manipulating bugs in the game or has been cheating in any other way will be deleted from the game immediately. Using vulgar words towards other players may also lead to deletion.   
         
     (I) Responsibility of the developers:   
        The Space Odyssey Team will do everything possible for the game to run flawlessly. Beyond that, Space Odyssey is not liable in any way for server breakdown, faulty programming, etc. The occurrence of any disadvantages for a user resulting from server breakdowns, faulty programming etc. does not entitle the user to claim the recovery of his account's status before the occurrence. 

Fair play   
Each case will be looked at separately by the Space Odyssey team, before a decision is made.

People, Just quit whining already.
If you really are the "REAL" and great DDD, then prove it. Having a "2" added to your name shouldn't change your ability.
Lammo, I really don't think you can talk about it being unfair and giving players and advantage, you've cheated and used loopholes numerous times in the past..

Hehehe   Zephyr = moderator      You make my point, ok the game belongs to you, just makin sure the rules.


And I do not play any alts what you see is what you get  Arbie

Bummer, this is such a kewl game too.

The game doesn't belong to me in any way, I just make sure the forums run smoothly.
 ^.^

Welp, it has been fun couple weeks.  You are welcome to wipe my account.  Won't be back.   You know my thoughts

Aww, don't quit man.  :2:
I sent you a PM.  :19:

well there goes one player... how many more before emi relizes that perhaps he was picking sides when he shouldnt?

This is an outrage i dont think i will be renewing my account

two... sigh.. emi dont let this get as bad as when you let LOI cheat with the bountys... lost alot of great players there..

*nudge nudge*  :14: alot of great donators too

Why the f**k is this allowed?? huh ? I mean .. Why did E let FTP make another DDD same name same # of days old? This is such BS .. I didn't get all these ppl into DDD and then plan a mutiny just for another one could be made.. err This is really disappointing emi, looks like all your care about is money if your pocket ... pffft

Tho is doesn't matter to some but, I'm willing to delete my account for FTP's/Emi's actions,If something doesnt change about this . . .

im to stubborn to actally delete my account.. but ill sure as hell quit..

the take over was 100% liget no multiple alts. no abuse.. and emi dont think that simply changing the name so that there is 2 Dooms Day Defenders is going to work.. we hold the real DDD weaither you like it or not and for all i care the other is the fake. if you want to make it.. so be it.. but dont steal the DDD logo, Desciption and name.. name it whatever you want.. it can be close.. but not the same.

Am I seeing the alliance rankings correctly?!?
Two alliances can now share the same name?
How about if we just name all of the alliances Dooms Day Defenders.
What other occasions ToS violations will now be allowed, and how often will it happen now that the creator even violates and bends rules to suit the occasion.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but.... three rights make a left.

Ok, here is what information I got on this case and the decision:

I have been informed 'Dooms Day Defenders' alliance had a change in leadership and the new leadership was threatening to disband the alliance. Also, I was told that the alliance creator Wizard_Of_War would be returning and he would very much want his alliance name back if he is denied access to his created alliance.

It the spirit of fair play the creator commander ID witch is marked in the database next to the alliance name has the right to ask for his alliance logo / name if / when he comes back, so I have reserved the second alliance for him. The second alliance name has been renamed to [Reserved] until the creator comes back, at that point he may ask for his created name or rename it to something else if the situation is not resolved by the leaders / members of DDD.

I am sorry I was busy with other projects and did not have more time to study all the details of this issue before renaming DDD. I was lead to belief they would disband the alliance. If that is not the case, I will leave this issue to the involved commanders to resolve, until I hear from Wizard_Of_War.

The alliance problems are usually resolved among the alliance members / former members, you can always wage war.

Thank you.

P.S.: un-sticky :)

I'm sorry if I gave you the idea their purpose was to disband it. I did mention nighty said he might do it, but it was not my intend to make you believe this was the reason of the mutiny. And I apologize for that.

There were many good lessons in this scenario.

1. The leader of any alliance is ultimately responsible for the safeguarding of thier holdings (including but not limited to authority or integrity regarding the alliance's stance) through the scrutiny and screening of all of it's applicants (including intentions).
2. In-game conflicts that have not violated ToS should be handled in-game by the affected parties through negotiation or retaliation (including but not limited to total annihilation through warfare or the same tactics that led to the conflict). Circumventing the in-game mechanics, to resolve a conflict or outcome that happened within the game's structuring, is irresponsible.
3. Rash decisions made with any hint of emotion will rarely produce an intended outcome, and will generally blow up in the decision-makers face. Decisions made regarding a conflict that does not involve the decision-maker must be made from a unbiased stand-point. Failure to attain bipartisan support in such a situation can easily lead to the angering the parties involved and their constituencies.
4. Humour is only understood by the parties aware or involved in the joke.

This exercise was intended to be a joke, but to execute properly, the premise could not be known by anyone not pulling the prank. The acceptance of how it played out, by the majority of the people affected, greatly changed the outcome. There was more disgust in how it was handled than how or that it happened. The idea of forcing a group of people to accept that something could be arbitrarly changed because somebody forces their will upon them will always be met with resistance. Fact of the matter is, if the person(s) affected by this upheaval were active, it probably never would have happened.


Being that this is a game of war, all factors of warfare must be considered and accepted... this includes teamwork, strategy, spies, subterfuge, as well as guerilla tactics.


Before haphazardly responding to this post, please consider the following...
If this same scenario where to happen to somebody uniformly disliked, would the same course of action have been taken?

I expect not, and would truley hope not.

no, just take Sea-o as a prime exsample.. i was overthrown because my allaince members didnt like me.. and a new leader was replaced.. yet i didnt complain to emi and i didnt end up getting a duplicate of my allaince created so that i can run it as the "real" allaince.

 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

You are a joke Lamma, what happened on Sea -O was because your alliance couldnt stand your cheating.


Firstly, I am away working at the moment, and I have not been in touch with Emi at all, keep up your lies and rhetoric, it makes an amusing read when i can get online.

Secondly, I let ABI run the alliance till I got back from work, but, unfortunately, ABI wasnt as wise as we both thought he was, because in his haste to try and get DDD back as a power house, he was basically conned by a couple of people, who have an age old agenda.

Thirdly.  Now that you are back in DDD, I want nothing to do with DDD unless WoW comes back, your presence in any alliance besmirches it. DDD was never a haven for cheats and liars, but now you are back in there, I guess DDD only now really exists in the minds of those who entered DDD as true members based on their skill, not their willingness to lie and cheat. 

Fourth. Funny how you are the one who has been crowing about how YOU stole DDD from me blah blah blah, and you have been the the most vocal about the whole affair, so when do you take over as leader of DDD???? Will nighty be rewarded for his efforts???

You stole the name, that is the only way you could enter the DDD alliance. Not by skill or Honor, but by stealth and backstabbing, and founding an alliance with those attributes, you have only recreated Skums Dump with a new logo  :)) :))


Just for tha lulz

"yet i didnt complain to emi and i didnt end up getting a duplicate of my allaince created so that i can run it as the "real" allaince.  "

"im to stubborn to actally delete my account.. but ill sure as hell quit.. "

"but dont steal the DDD logo, Desciption and name.."------------hurts when it happens to you???

But the all time classic....
he may of been known to use thouse account, but it dosnt mean its his..

and on that line wouldnt it be 'alt abuse' for ABI and Foo to place several alts into an allaince to vote for themselfs purely to hold the allaince?

and unless told other wise blak you can cheak the IP adresses to every account that joined that allaince before the take over.. there was no abuse of alts no matter how much you want to say that.

FTP i dont want all your "moral" talk what happpened happened, and sure stealing a name of an allaince has its soul proupus to piss someone off.. but what has something i done in this game not have that as the ultiment goal? sure its a dirty trick FTP, but liget none the less, and no matter how much you slim few dislike the DDD take over odds are majority of you dont like it just because you eaither have some personal problems with one of the members that were involved or you disagree just to be a differnt voice.

[EDITED FOR LANGUAGE BY ZEPHYRBLADE]  "   
 :)) :)) :))Should have been edited on content and spelling :)) :)) :)) :))

I am sorry to have to break it to you lamma, but as I have a wife,kids and a paying job(try Mcfondles you would love it) this is just 1 of the games i play (barely), so your master plan with nighty to really piss me off was a grand waste of time. You only have left me disappointed to know that a person with such a huge ego as you, doesnt have the capacity to see that your claim to fame is nothing to be proud of, but I guess in here, you can try and cover your inadequacies in RL with delusions of digital grandeur.

if you were not pissed off about the entire take over im sure i wouldnt of gotten things like



from you.. and to me seeing you write something like that is all i need to smile. mission accomplished. piss off foo huh?

Lammo, he is not angry, just merely voicing his opinion.
If you talk to him on MSN, he's finding what you do hilarious.  :19:

you got that right zeph :)) :)) :)) :))


 :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

Obviously school must have been a difficult time for you, you seem to have missed the end of my post, I guess that once my post got to point three, you must have gotten lost (do big numbers hurt your brain)

Let me re post the end, just so you dont lose track again  :19:


I am sorry to have to break it to you lamma, but as I have a wife,kids and a paying job(try Mcfondles you would love it) this is just 1 of the games i play (barely), so your master plan with nighty to really piss me off was a grand waste of time. You only have left me disappointed to know that a person with such a huge ego as you, doesnt have the capacity to see that your claim to fame is nothing to be proud of, but I guess in here, you can try and cover your inadequacies in RL with delusions of digital grandeur.




Lets lock and load this thread into the oblivion

Case Closed
END OF STORY
 :12:

[TOPIC RE-LOCKED BY ZEPHYRBLADE]
5 MINUTES OF FAME IS OVER, KTHNXBYE

Thank you zeph....This post is to remain locked, ANY moderator that chooses to unlock it, or reply to it henceforth will be punished.