Forum - Space Odyssey MMORPG - a massive free online space game

Hi everyone,

I would like suggestions on the royalties issue. Ideas so far from me:

1) - 2% in full per day. Possible problem: Feeding a lower account once a day?

2) - Royalty recording on a dayly basis, and distributing the royalties at the end of the day, taking the largest amount ressuplied for full 2%, one time royalty per day, sending it at midnight or whatever. Also, checking of receiver power, whitout ships, royalty can not exceed 100% shipless commander power, if it does, he gets 100% shipless power in credits.


I like the 2) idea, it will benefit high power designers more, and not newbie commanders... Should work fine.

Please post any more ideas,

God Speed!

2 could work, I like it as well, but you could also do this:

2% royalty for ships resupplied.
You can recieve no more then a set number of royalties from one player a day, say 5.
The amount of royalties cannot exceed the designers power. If it does, the designer recieves their power in credits.

This would make it nearly impossible to feed a lower commander, as they can't earn any more then their power (or shipless power, though that can be pretty low, so maybe make it like, 200%-400% shipless power to be fair)

But if my ideas seem to lax, i do agree that 2 on your list could work well.

~57 posts left~

I like 2) because it discurages feeding, as you have to wait for the end of the day to receive it, and it's not instant, but keep them coming, thanks.

yes, that's the main reason I like it, you have to wait to recieve them no matter what, though that would have to be changed during D-day to be instant, as you don't normally have till the end of the day then.

~54 posts left~

well im stumped i like both ideas number 2 from you sir e and monkeys, i'll just go with the flow






who will be the new admin (how did that slip in there, monkey for admin ) oops

 :)) I dont think you should rely on royalties during DDAY lol, um, brute force.   :19:

Personally I could care less which one you choose since I won't get royalties either way...  :))

I know, but that is one problem that should be addressed, and I figured I should bring it up, so it is at least out there in the open. We could just eliminate royalties during d-day as well, that would work too.

and lol darkness. Anyone else notice that Admin hasn't been on since november 28th?

and I know how you feel charlemange...I rarely get them too, but it's always important to make your voice heard.

~54 posts left~

is there any way that the unit limit of 1mil can be increased in both the market and player to player to a more realistic number of say 25mil or 50mil. at least then it would be worth trading the market for a larger number of players. another idea on the whole player to player trade issue would be to post larger trades in the news similar to the way it is done with missions stating the names of the people transfering so that the player community can hold them accountable and not be governed by emi. i like less government and more accountability.

signed kryologic/superscott

CHOAM's amount does change, it goes up with the average of the players. eventually it'll reach 10M, and so on. However, changing the limit on players will allow funding again, so that can't happen.

and this game is emi's, so he has the final say on everything. He is god here basically. If you don't like it, quit is my only advice.

~44 posts left~

Whats the point of royalties then?

2% of the highest resupply of the day . . . What if someone resupplies one ship at a time?

100 credits per ship, 100 ships

2 credits each resupply . . .Your design is being used 100 times, but you would only recieve 2 credits

Thats bull(bleep)

You should recieve royalties for EVERY ship that gets cloned. Why should it be any other way? Ok, put it this way . . A new musician makes a kick butt album. That album is selling like hotcakes at 20 bucks a whack and sells a million in one day . . . but only recieves 2% of 20 bucks? Thats unsat and the musician would be incredibly upset and would sue the record company. We cant go sueing people because of this but the point is still valid

Sir Emi I have stated this before I dont mind waiting for my royalties.  I have made this suggestion that the ships purchased must be used in X number of missions or destroyed for the designer to get his or her royalties to stop the  just buying and selling of ships say at least 10 missions.  This will stop the just purchace of ships to power a player but would give good designers the ability to use royalities as a major source of income.  it could be doled out in amounts of the players power over time per day.  Thus no instant jumps but a steady income from say a quad cost ship being purchased.  and this amount could increase as the players power increases. but the player like some of my designs and some others Designs are bought by many players.  This should be for each player that purchases a ship.

I like Franks idea

actually, franks idea is almost an exact replica of Emi's second idea, which is that you get the royalties at the end of the day, and their is a limit based on the royalty recievers power.

~41 posts to go~

heh, simple, you may only receive so many of the credits at the end of the day from what was purchased... say either commander lvl, or amount of credits in secret base or just total credit value. once the credits worth of the purchase hit's this amount, no more is given.

...

or better yet, you can only get as many credits as warehouse modules or workshops you have  :)
this would probably really put more emphasis on how many workshops you have again.

nah, too coplicated ars. Sir Emi's 2nd idea is probably the best so far.

~23 posts left~

Ok let's put this in paper:

- Designer makes a good design, gives name to buyer, designer power is 100% in day 1 (theory).
- Buyer makes several purchases of design, each royalty stacks for later use.
- The day ends and royalty is given, and these checks are made:
   1 - Does the stacked royalty exceed 15% of designer shipless power (in credit power - credits have a power value and can be converted to power) at the end of the day? If so, royalty is set at the max. (Note that each design is counted and added, so if you sold 100 designs to 100 commanders, they all get included here.)
   2 - Royalty is less then 15% of designer shipless power (in credit power), the amount is credited as is.

Designer logs and notices some credits, logs indicate the amount received, and maybe a hint that max was reached, and he needs to expand the business.  :naughty:

How does that sound?

God why cant ppl just make their own designs... noobs  :))
ah yes dont take this seriously though. just my meaning and i know most ppl wants to whine about it and say bla bla bla we should have royalties  L:)

yeah far as i see it royalties werent supposed to be a source of major income, jsut a small reward for other people liking your designs...

wow one of the few really good posts in forum atm :) jk

1st hellsword ur right.

2nd I like this idea also - a limit is really needed.

w/r bb

ah :(  what's so complicated about it?

besides, if your afraid to do a little a work to build up a great game, chances are you shouldn't start in the first place, right Emi? (I say that because I'm sure Emi has gone through a LOT of headaches so far getting everything to work through the years :)))

What I was saying is that all the royalties get paid.  But they all dont make it in the same day.  Only an amount of royalties relitive to the commanders power is given.  if the designer only get royalties less than his power the commander gets them all that day as they are made,  if the royalty is more the rest is put in a trust to be doled out over time and the new royalties are added to this fund.  Also YOu could reduce the royalty amount to like .5% thus not such a great amount when selling huge ships or massive amounts of ships.

and broni the Royalty was implemeted to give back to a designer.  Thus better designers make more in royalties, thus can become a proment sourse of income. not all the income, but a large %  say 20% of a commanders overall income in some cases. or as Sir E has stated 15% would be good.

Fine frank if either 20% or 15% - both isn t the main income so that should be fine at all.

But there is no real reason to give the payment to a cdr over several days ... that would just make it possible to feed ppl over a week or longer - my opinion. - A cdr should get like once a day, the rest is lost - otherwise a very low cdr could end in top 30 just after waiting for his payment ... - once a day payment means also that a higher ranked designer will get better payment than a inactive designer ... - that fine I think :-)

w/r bb

Broni and I have been talking about this in length over msn.  I think a fair way for royalties to be paid is to discount credits from the equation and go from cmd. level, workshops, and # of workers.  since that is the real way things get done. and thus a % of the credits per day based on those figures will be the desiding factors in how much a commander can make on a royalty per day but still the commander gets the total of the royalty as he grows in these factors.  I really hate to see a commander with no segments or level in the top when the top 30 has an average of arouind cmd lv of 200+

Hello E I have just done some calculations and this would be even less than a $1 donation is now for 99% of the commanders.  that is even worse than the way it is now. we want all of our 2% not even less than the $1 donation for each transaction. I just did my shipless power and I can make more in 1 mission. than I would get from this new way.  the $1 donation per transaction is at least 10 times more than a single mission for me  per transaction. and I hate to say this but I sell ships that at least 10,000 times the size of one mission.  This is unaccaptble.  I want my 2% but it should be paid per transaction.  if you want to do it like you have stated it should be more like 200 times the missions you can do per transaction total possible, but wait till the ships are used in battle to keep commanders from just buying and selling junk that they cant use.

Emi, I must say that I like your 24hour payment schedule idea but I do have a few changes to it  :P

I think royaltys should be 2% of what the buyer actually paid for the ship after discounts from gold and his/her commander upto a max of a % of your creds on hand and in your stash per day.

For Example Purposes Only  lets say a max of 25% of your credits on hand and in stash per 24 hour period....

A low ranked commander with 10bil creds(hand and stash combined) . Most they can recieve in total for that day is 25% of thier credits&stash at the 00:00 hour, so a max of 2.5Bill credits...

High ranked commander with 10trill creds(hand and stash combined) .Most they can recieve in total for that day is 25% of thier credits&stash at the 00:00 hour, so a max of 2.5Trill credits...

So if one commander buys a ship from you and the 2% of its value is more than 25% of your total credits at the end of the day you would recieve a max of 25% of your total credits.
If a single royalty is less than 25% of your total credits at the end of the day it will get stacked up with all the other royaltys upto a max of 25% of your total credits ...


This will stop people from buying ships with the sole purpose of powering up lower ranked commanders Quickly. Note that i say quickly.

with this methord you can nolonger get more creds from a royalty then u actually have...

the% of your credits that you recieve is the tough thing to work out...

very similar to your idea but... The amount a commander can recive should be based on the credits they have and not the power these credits give off...

Sorry if this confuses anyone, writing is by far my best feature(spelling included LOL!) :12:

I for the most part agree with frank.

Here is how I look at it.

Porche designs cars and sells them to people. Those people usually work for dealerships or Porche sends vehicles to dealerships to be sold. Once the vehicle is sold, someone somewhere is getting the royalties ( or in this case, commission) for their design/sale.

Do you think that person is going to accept only getting a set limit of his commission? No. What is the point of making a commission if its just going to be cut into pieces and you won't see it for a certain amount of time? That would be like accepting to be paid for winning the lottery over 20 years. Not only are they going to tax the hell out of it, but you wont see all of it for 20 years. Thats rediculous.

What is the point of designing ships? Making money.

Sure, everyone wants to limit how much people recieve from other people. Fine . . . Here is my solution.

Sure, we can have it where at the end of the day you recieve your royalties, However, DO NOT LIMIT the amount of royalties you recieve.

The problem with royalties is people clone hulls and what not to get other people money, instead of actually using the design. Here is my solution. I know how easy it will be to add a variable to the fleets currently owned into the database for a boolean of weither or not the ship has been used in a mission. You could also include how many missions/encounters/whatever the ship has been involved in. If the cloned ship has not been used at all, then the designer will not recieve credits.


What I have noticed peoplle do though, is they  will clone a fleet, check out the design, design a ship of their own with the same stats and then get rid of the cloned design thus taking credit for others designs. I know this point was brought up long ago and we were told that there would be checks and the sort to prevent this, however we have failed to see that, so why now are there royalty nerfs? Doesn't really make any sense

hum whats the point here? ... - Designers should have thier benefit for makingdesigns, good designers get more benefits OK thats good, but gving ppl like 25% of there combined stash per day at maximum will kill the balance - this will lead to the following facts:

- only ppl with lots of designs (later on for sure only with good designs) will reach top ranks - reason: 25% daily credits boost per day
or
- all ppl will make thier own designs, or only accept blueprints by fiends, so nobody will get any royality anymore - to be honest I am not a very active designer but for missions and encounters I could do my ships after a short time on my own

but most importand:

player, think about what this game is, its ment to be a war / strategy game (OK to my eyes its atm mostly luck based OK) - but not a economy similation - if its ment to be a space trading game fine, than make royalities a major issue (commisions) but than also give the market free (that than called corruption) and give the interrests rates in the stash free - since in real world if u have 10000 euros to invest u ll get a smaller rate then as when u invest 1000000 euros and for a trill euro u prolly get even a little bit more ...

I clearly understand that this game is also about growing and growing happens only with credits, so every one wants to get as much credits as possible - thats the real point here ...

but back to the 2% royalities - so if a designer is to small to get the full 2%/ship daily (after ship used in battle ...) than its that designers fault - if u pay somebody royalities lets say over a week (given that he/she doesn t gets more royalities during that time) we have the same discussion like with the market as we had ... - even ppl being inactive will get lots of cash into thier hand (this could lead to a situation like with lunanova 2 rounds ago ... but since royalities go to at hand cash and not to the stash nobody could farm it this time ...)- or lets say somebody like e.g. Ricu who is a good designer but as far as I know inactive for this and the round before ... - he has lots of designs in the libary - so if some ppl use some of his designs over the entire round he ll get payment and with this power without even having played a single minute ... - thats what many ppl are affraid of - let get ppl paid once a day and all they could not grap is lost - lets say he mafia got the rest lol - since they protect the weak designer from trouble ...

w/r bb

weither your 16 or 80 . . you should still have the potential to earn the same amount of money. There should be no cap as to how much in royalties you can recieve.

To fix this, the royalties could be given over a few days, however you should eventually recieve the full amount you should recieve

Say you have 1000 power and you get 10,000 royalty. Provided you stay at that 1000 power, it should take 10 days for that one royalty to be completely paid off. Have it pay total power per day. Since your total power accomidates for cash/workers that you have as well as fleets, it will never be a large portion of your power and thus would cause your power to increase slowly thus preventing boosting, however people will still get their dues that they are owed

ya not a problem one of my designes gives more than 3quad power to the buyer,  and I get a whole 100billion credits for that
 :4:  I dont think that is fair in the least.  an arcitect gets like 10% of his buildings cost weather he is a billioniar or a broke student fresh out of college. why should I not get paid my 2% for a good design.  yes I agree that we need to put in checks and balances, and I have put up methods for that and I agree that the royalties should be put into the stash so it can be raided as well for those inactive players.  you need to protect your money so haveing it put in stash is a very good idea.

I receive everyday atleast once 100 bill, I dont even want to think about how much I miss a day :(, but a larger problem all my ship I designed before this round have so many clones I will never get any royalties anymore  :(

I realy like the idear of giving it at end of the day.

Btw Emi mentioned getting that percentage of shipless power in credit power means, you will get 1000x as much credits as that power would be. So 15% of youre shipless power of 100 bill would still give 100 x 0,15 x 1000 = 15000 bill so 15 trill. I think thats pretty good.

And about putting it in stash YES

And if you exceed that number of cash it will reserve itself to the next day so that you will have a steady flow of income :)


EDIT: I think the percentage should be lowered as when youre shipless power is 1/20 of youre fleet power. With 15% of that 1000x to get youre number of credits, you can upgrade everyday just of royalties. I just checked it calculating everything for myself. This is with line assemble calculated.

Thats provided that people are using your ship designs. I don't believe that is how Emi had portrayed the idea of the new royalties system. That seems very excessive.

That would still pave way for people to advance quickly considering that with that system, people would double in power daily.

how nicholas? if you can only earn your power in credits via royalties, it means that you can't get !t credits when you only have 100M power.

~19 posts left~

Luffy he was commenting on my post I think.

And it always have to be shipless power as I can get more then 1 power for each credit I spend.

well take it as given that FTPs designs are in use :-) lol

w/r bb

the fact remains the at this point the person in question would have to be BELOW the other person to be receiving full benefit... meaning he would be most likely behind in the rankings.  and doubling in power is about as much I would expect myself to do on a really good day... but that was before this whole mission change thing...

man, we just need a new way to reward ship designers other then credits, really.

Ok, we have some very good ideas in this topic, let's see...

- Deigner makes good designs
- Someone uses designs
- Designer gets royalty once per day, 00:00:
    - Conditions and parameters:
    - Royalty 2% is calculated after skills and deductions, on the real credits spent
    - Max percent per day: 1% to 15% of designer shipless power in credits
    - Max percent per day influenced by commander level, on a 0 - 500 scale, 0 is 1%, 500 or more is 15%, gets rounded up to two decimals, e. g. level 150 => (150/500)*15 = 4.50%
    - Royalty is deposited in secret base
    - Royalty is given in full 2%, but the amount given each day depends on (Max percent per day), => depends on the level of the commander basically, no alts for this one... exept if you wanna spend 100 days to double your power eh?

P.S.: Frank, this is not implemented yet, when it will be, it will be in the updates board, this is just to get it right before I start... Feel free to comment, suggest, predict...  :)

Sir Emi 15% of 100 bill shipless power = 100 x 0,15 x 1000= 15 trill right?


Sounds great :D

Emi, that's brilliant. By dividing the 2% into another percent, it completely prevents feeding via royalties, because it would take too long to get all te credits, but it still allows the designers to receive the full 2% of the designed ship's cost. The only forseeable downside is that it means a lot of work for the system, and that designers will have to wait to receive their royalties, but those a very minor, shouldn't be too big a problem (waiting for the 2% is better then not getting it, right?). I look forward to this idea's implementation.

~7 posts left~

so basicly i need more than one designer cuz i usually upgrade once a day. i can understand if someone just goes and clones one of your ships. but my designer stops what he's doing and designs a ship just for me. to compensate for my commander skill bonuses. the rewards for a service like that with the new royalties will suck. please think about that. just about all the people in the top ten upgrade every day and that will mess up the designers on royalties. sorry but why make a game for people to become very highly valued at there trade and then mess em over on the pay out. everyone knows it but then they have the ones out there that will exploit it. so why not make it to where when u resupply the ships on the same day they're designed that your designer gets full royalties and the ship has to make it through 20 encounters before the royalties will be paid. cuz if the ships will make it through 20 encounters then it's good enough for the buyer to keep.

wolf, if you buy 20 100M designs at 50% off, then you only spent 1B credits, not 2B. So he only deserves 2% of 1B, which is all you spent. But if you spend another 1B on his ships, then he will get 2% of 2B, it's fair, it's like buying a used car. You're not paying the full 13K for it, only 5k because it's been used. So should the dealer get the same pay as if he sold a new 13k car? no.

lol once again u failed to read a post right i see. i said if it's resupplied the same day it's build. nothing used about it. the designer built it just for me. that's like saying k. i'm going to design and build a house just for that persons needs. but i'm going to charge the same price as i regular ordinary house. even tho it's a costum house. all costums jack to price up so u have got to use another example on that one. emi has last say but u will never win that arguement. it goes against the basic econamy.

well, you are right there, though it is that designer's design, so technically, it is still used, but once again, this is a game, and that means it's economy is different then the real economy, and either way, that house builder only gets a % of what you paid, not what the house was worth. So my logic still makes some sense, as does yours.

I think it was Frank who said that the ships need to be used an X number of times before the royalties can be paid and that seems like a great idea which should discourage the purchase to boost a low account.


my name is Silverthorne and I approve this message

it might help, but what if they die before X amount of use? you can't let people have the royalties if the ships die or X amount of uses, because everyone will purposely kill the ships to get the royalties. The system Sir emi is setting up sounds liek it'll do fine, there's no need to tamper with it just yet. We should see exactly how it runs before we do that.

LoL, then the design wasnt that great or the person who bought it is using it wrong.

But yeah, I see your point



"Has anyone seen Bessy the Rabid cow?"

i didn't say anything about them being destroyed. if they're destroyed then no royalties with in the 20 encounters.

ok, but see, what if they get destroyed BEFORE then? it's not fair that the designer not get a royalty because his ships got destroyed before they meet the required use.

if they get destroyed before then. then the designer needs to a-learn how to better design or b-not design for noobs.

no, not if the person who bought them is using them incorrectly or hit a killer fleet. That's not the designers fault.

the designer will still make more cuz the good ones have alot of buyers. do some math or do they teach math to u in home schooling.

they teach us math, and I advise you watch the insults, they are against ToS. And his ships might be good, but incorrect use of those ships will get you nowhere, everyone knows that. Common sense.

refer to part b of my last post saying don't design for noobs. an insult? it was all in the form of a question. to say they r insults refer to your post on another topic asking me if i'm that stupid. in the form of a question so no insult there. just like mine. once again a contradiction. u need to have your own oppinion sometimes. so that u can actually learn to practice what u preach.

no, I was insulting you when I asked if you were honestly that stupid, because you had already instulted me before then. And it doesn't MATTER who you design for, anyone with a gold account can clone your ships if they are open. There's is no point in designing ships if you don't get royalties for EVERYONE who uses them. (edited for an accusation made in the heat of moment)

once again read my post like u claim i don't(OMG contradiction again). custom ships just for them. people can come along and clone it. but not what i'm talking about. i talking about them getting your needs on the acc abs and ratio with the cost. then going to design it for u. hello it will be a one time thing cuz they only made that ship for that person. the rest that clone it will get low royalties. please think before u respond. i have yet to see u post anything worth brain storming over.

I get that wolfy, but even if the design is made for you, the designer should get paid no matter who uses it, even if it IS a noob.

well it seems to be ship designers what all thier royalties, and those that dont sell designes dont want the designers to get paid. and Wolfy it has been a very long time since the TH has got any where near the proper royalties for any of its larger designs since the max has been the $1 donation per batch of ship bought.  So designers should get the money per batch per day. I have noticed that many of those that clone fleets enstead of build them  are the ones that dont want the designers to get all thier due.  the ones complaing the most are those that like to buy multi quad ships and the designer only gets the 100 billion enstead of the full 2% that was paid for the ship.

Now the game has grown enough that people are starting to use ships that pay max royalties, which means i get cheated out of money.
For that reason, my designs are once again private.

im down with no royalties at all mauahahhaha ^^


Smeezus but im sure wat ever happens there will be people who abuse it ^^


See u all on the battlefield maybe lol :12:

doesnt say its approved be smeezus... UR A FAKE!!!

-_- Why do all our topics end up losing footing?

The points are: Designers should get full royalties, PERIOD.
Emi's new system is working fabulously.
GET OVER IT.

I'm Seither, and I pwned this message.

as far I can tell the new system has not been implemented.  Since Sir Emi has not made a new post about said system. They should be paid the full % of what is paid for the ship. if that is less than the list price of the ship. 

I know for a fact that the new system is either not implemented, or its not working.
Cause I've not gotten full royalties for the bigger boats ive sold lately.... Which is why my designs are now private.
Anyone wanting a ship from me, will have to meet my earlier mentioned conditions. Otherwise my blueprints will remain my own, until such a time that royalties are once again available in some form.
No pay = no work.

And Luffy... instead of you thinking you can decide when who should get over what, I would rather you spend your time trying to get over yourself.

ug, working on the new royalty system in this weekend, hope to have it up by monday.

I talked to snipe, ad he told me that the royalty system had been tested by him in a simple parameter, and he it worked just fine. He did say it was a simple version though. My confidence in Emi is unaltered, the system will work perfectly when implemented.

And Argus, I'm not exactly sure WHAT that comment was all about. I am over myself, I'm just tired of people complaining about the royalty system when Emi is already working on it. I've said it before, if you don't like reading my posts or what I say, the ignore them. Period.

It is implented already...

It wasn't when I made that post though FTP. But yes, it is now implemented, and, from what I can tell, it seems to be work rather splendidly.

Youre post was almost a day later.

Emi's posted in updates it was implented:
    
New Royalty System
« on: February 04, 2007, 01:52:37 AM »

 Posted by: Monkey D. Luffy                       Posted on: February 05, 2007, 01:13:56 AM

I talked to snipe, ad he told me that the royalty system had been tested by him in a simple parameter, and he it worked just fine. He did say it was a simple version though. My confidence in Emi is unaltered, the system will work perfectly when implemented.

And Argus, I'm not exactly sure WHAT that comment was all about. I am over myself, I'm just tired of people complaining about the royalty system when Emi is already working on it. I've said it before, if you don't like reading my posts or what I say, the ignore them. Period.

yes, THAT one was, but the oen before that, when I said it was implemented, was before emi added it.

Srry for reading this wrong then :P

that one was ye, sorry hehe, the one i quoted is the one that was meant.