|
Title: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 05, 2006, 01:42:37 PM I did a 69-70 bil encounter for a black hole.
What I don't understand is my two top ships did only a little over 23% of the attack as damage. If you count in accuracy it increases very little considering the two best ships I have are 99% accuracy without adding accuracy commander bonus. Why did my ships not do more damage? The fleet I encountered, however did a vast majority more % of damage in the first attack, then leveled itself out. Why would the fleet in the beginning do a tremendous hit that hits 6.5 times more damage, then the next 3 attacks? Doesn't make sense. That was my strongest ship, however my weak ships survived due to the enemy fleet not doing as much damage? Why did the enemy fleet not do anywhere near the same damage? It's not because I destroyed ships. I know that because the 2nd through 4th attacks were around the same damage. third attack had more then the 2nd, fourth had less then all. Either way, it does not matter. I replaced the ship already, I am just concerned with how these things are working. It seems odd to me The numbers dont add up properly. To me it seems that enemy AI differs from player AI for attacks. It's almost as if it gives them a bit of an advantage. Not sure, and now I am just rambling but I would like a few answers. Below is the encounter: (Changed the names to protect fleet security) Code: Invader Nicholas D. Wolfwood (#3202) Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Seither on December 05, 2006, 01:47:35 PM maybe those ships had high abs? I don't know, this seems to be popping up a lot lately.
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 05, 2006, 02:13:21 PM 71% abs on the fleet. 89% accuracy
Apparently what had happened is the accuracy on the fleet droped. But that wont make sense either because the third attack did more damage then the second attack =-/ Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 05, 2006, 03:07:11 PM Here's the second jacked up encounter.
I am going to make an excel spreadsheet with all the information from these two encounters to get exact values. Second jacked up encounter: (Names changed to protect Fleet Security) Code: Invader Nicholas D. Wolfwood (#3202) Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 05, 2006, 05:19:47 PM (http://www.geocities.com/duobartonba/mission_1.JPG)
(http://www.geocities.com/duobartonba/mission_2.JPG) Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 05, 2006, 05:55:51 PM The numbers are correct. I triple checked the spreadsheets to make sure of that.
There is no way these encounters should keep happening since supposedly you fixed the killer fleet issue. Apparently, Emi you failed to fix the killer fleet problem. I want both of my ships back. If anything, at least my ship I lost from the 32 billion encounter. The 32 billion encounter is obviously a bug. The 69 billion encounter could theoretically be accurate, however the 32 billion encounter is OBVIOUSLY a bug as you can see clearly that the fleet has more power then the 69 billion encounter for less then half of the cost. Granted, yeah small ships have swarm bonus still, but this obviously is a problem with swarm bonus that still exists. This isn't fixable by adjusting the costs of fleets to match yours when encountering them. I've also heard and noticed when I have the fleet calculator works with encounters since encounters are pretty much just missions. I have the fleet calculator enabled. Never disabled it Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: SirEmi on December 05, 2006, 07:34:00 PM Here's how fleet counters work, as I have received messages about this before. I don't like to spoil the fun, but here it is, always been like this:
- Every fleet on the first attack (first shot) will fire with 100% attack (normal calcs, attack * numbers / accuracy). - Second shot (this is when the fleet fires a second time in the same battle), random value between 0 - 40% (penalty 60%-100%) of the first shot attack (if it didnt lose any ships, then the first shoot is recalculated) - Next shots: penalty between 70% - 100% This explains why you lost the first ship, then received less damage to second fleet (e.g penalty was 85, you received 10 - 15% of normal), then a little more damage from 3 fleet (e.g penalty <85). This is no bug, in a real combat situation, the projectile will not always miss, but the probability to miss increases as you fire more ammo, and sometimes it will hit when it wasn't suppoesed to... On another note, this protects the lower fleets against those encounters, so they at least stand a chance, and you don't lose all your fleets in a single battle. If you still want the ships back, others will have to express their opinion, and you need to make a pool for them to vote, and you need to have at least 3 votes from commanders that I know on your side, and be in majority and win the pool, and the pool should have at least 20 member votes. God Speed! Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Soppe on December 07, 2006, 02:50:12 AM Dude, every1s been through that poop. if hes gonna get his ships back, every1 else should too. yeah it sux, and no it wasnt like this at all last round, but as ppl say, u gotta adapt to the bs.
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Seither on December 09, 2006, 04:41:58 PM Well, Sir Emi, he meet your requirements.
And Soppe, not all commanders go to the lengths wolf did to prove he was right, so they don't deserve their ships back. All they do is whine and demand for them back. Wolf wen through and calculated everything and then posted showing he shouldn't have lost the fleets. Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 10, 2006, 04:19:22 AM pwned
Thx Luffy (2nd post with practically the same reply) Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ars68 on December 11, 2006, 11:13:23 AM wait a sec... huh? the max damage possible going straight off of attack would be 2,163,738,211,852... ok...
but then you are SUPPOSED to have accuracy penalty of about 10% (you say the enemy ship has 89% acc) so that bring it down roughly 200 bil, right? that takes it down to: 1,925,727,008,548.28 now, your ships would have 80% ABS, right? well, that takes off everything but 20% of the damage, so then: 20% of 1,925,727,008,548.28 is 385,145,401,709.656 the ships actual att your ships HP 385,145,401,709.656 < 569,475,255,375 so why did it do almost double that amount to kill anything? or did you not lose that ship???? did I miss something somewhere??? seriously though, do you take a random number based on the ships actual ABS or something? and for that matter defense as well? because there's been more then once that taking everything into account, there should be no way a ship is lost, yet it is anyway. Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 12, 2006, 02:18:27 PM That was the actual numbers. I cloned the fleets and took the values I see in my edit/view fleet screen of the enemy fleets and then ran that data through the formulas. Everything is accurate
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ronald on December 13, 2006, 05:23:13 AM Emi is right. There is nothing wrong with the battle calcs. There is no reason whatsoever to give the ships you lost back. I made the calculations and it all matches with the results off the battle.
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 13, 2006, 11:57:25 AM Show us then Ronald
You did the calculations, show us. Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Seither on December 13, 2006, 11:49:27 PM I'm confused, nicholas did the calculations, and it shows they are off from the battle results.
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ronald on December 15, 2006, 05:18:02 AM I'll try to explain my calculation. :P
your ship : 569.475.255.375 hp / 656.368.839.235 attack / 99% acc / 71% abs enemy ships : 11.728.750.000 hp / 238.598.036 defence / 45.871.066.607 attack / # = 53 calculate total defence enemy ships: 238.598.036 * 53 = 12.645.695.908 total defence your first attack : 656.368.839.235 * 99% acc = 649.805.150.843 total attack The enemy fleet must have had 75% absorb power. total attack * (1-0.75) = 649.805.150.843 * 0.25 = 162.451.287.711 attack Then deduct from this the defence the enemy ships have: 162.451.287.711 attack - (238.598.036 defence * 53)= 149.805.591.803 damage This explains why you did so little damage in your first attack. (I know the number isn't exact but I'm close enough to confirm that the calculations are correct) Reason why your first ship got destroyed: enemy ships total attack : 53 ships * 45.871.066.607 attack * accuracy * (1 - 71% absorb) = ? suppose the "accuracy" off the enemy was 40% (I'm allmost certain it is more than that) => total attack = 690.451.294.569 Your ship had only 569.475.255.375 hp => lost ship because less hp than enemy attack. The rest off the battle is the same. (I hope I didn't make any mistakes) :sweat Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ars68 on December 17, 2006, 08:56:23 PM ya, I know... but then what happens to the players sheild power? is it really just ignored except for marines or something??? I was saying taking into account both accuracy AND sheild, it shouldn't be destroyed... unless ABS and ACC is taken into account some strange way??? and I'm saying this from other examples to.
meh, I don't care, I probably just mixed up one digit with another... again :sweat Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ronald on December 18, 2006, 02:25:27 AM ars68, I think you should reread and study my calculations once more. Because I did take absorb and accuracy into count.
"your first attack : 656.368.839.235 * 99% acc = 649.805.150.843 total attack" and "total attack * (1-0.75) = 649.805.150.843 * 0.25 = 162.451.287.711 attack" and "enemy ships total attack : 53 ships * 45.871.066.607 attack * accuracy * (1 - 71% absorb) = ?" I've highlighted the points where I take into count the acc and abs. Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 18, 2006, 04:14:26 PM *Cough* Ronald, what are you trying to say? You showed clearly that the enemy fleet shouldnt have been able to kill my fleet . . . sooooooo . . . .???????????
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ars68 on December 18, 2006, 11:32:21 PM wait a sec... that's what I thought... at 40% accuracy, it comes up to like half of what his ship's max hp was, not over... perhaps your forgetting to put a decimal point in somewhere?
I dunno now... somewhere something is not adding up, because it is the same 'problem' but me and you are defenitely coming up at different answers, which just should not be. I am getting this: Quote "enemy ships total attack : 53 ships * 45.871.066.607 attack * accuracy then with the said enemy ship having acc of 40%, I got this:* (1 - 71% absorb ) = ?" 53 * 45,871,066,607 * 40% * (1-71%) (convert to decimals) 53 * 45,871,066,607 * 0.4 * (1-0.71) 53 * 45,871,066,607 * 0.4 * 0.29 2,431,166,530,171 * 0.4 * 0.29 972,466,612,068.4 * 0.29 28,201,531,749.836 (rounding up) enemy max attack duo's ship max hp 28,201,531,750 < 569,475,255,375 in fact this is weird, because this time I got... not even 10% damage to the ship, where last time I got half damage... please note, however, that I am not continuing this on to get duo's ships back. as far as I'm concerned, they are lost, get over it. however, these huge gaps in what the damage should be is really worrying me, that something somewhere is either unaccounted for, or I am just REALLY starting to lose it... hold on a sec... where's that formula for determining an attack value... I know it was somewhere int his forum... Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ronald on December 19, 2006, 03:40:45 AM I see, I'm sorry. I clearly made a mistake.Sorry for all the confusion. Like I said in the previous post, I hoped I didn't make any mistakes but apperantly I did make some. :(
recalculation: enemy ships total attack : 53 ships * 45.871.066.607 attack * accuracy * (1 - 71% absorb) = ? suppose the "accuracy" off the enemy was 81% => total attack = 571.081.017.937 Your ship had 569.475.255.375 hp => lost ship because less hp than enemy attack. Only question left then, did the enemy ships have 81% or more accuracy? Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ars68 on December 19, 2006, 11:50:14 PM well, at least now we know where that ended up going wrong, at least, lol... oh, I have found it...
Q: How are the battle results calculated? A: Well, in the battle, it is not only one formula, but several, that modify the base atributes of your fleets. I will try to describe them for you... X is attacker Y is defender: C - crew level bonus A - attack (all weapons) AC - accuracy (0-1) AB - accuracy bonus from computers ASP - accuracy siege pennalty (-0.1 reg, -0.3 board -0.3 raid, -0.8 ambushed) ACP - accuracy mutiple shots penalty (between -0.6 and -1 depending on the shot, at first shot is 0 ) S - shield abs D - defence DB - defence bonus from specials SM - swarm bonus N - numbers TA - total fleet attack TD - total defence TA = (A + C + SM) * (AC+AB-ASP-ACP) * N TD = (D + C + SM) * (D * (1+DB) ) * N When we have X stats and Y stats, then comes the battle, and shields absorbiton, defence to determine damage done and received, other formulas lol... ok, hope this helps... ::) so then... assuming there is not yet another formula somewhere in there (in that case this whole thing here is pointless... really... what I'm about to do I mean, just... pointless) it would be: (substituting certain stats for what is already taken into account) TA = 45,871,066,607 * 0.89 * 53 TA = 40,825,249,280.23* 53 TA = 1,920,621,558,835.09 (rounded down) 2,163,738,211,852.19 * (1-0.71) <= sheild 2,163,738,211,852.19 * 0.29 total damage done: 556,780,252,062 enemy max attack duo's ship max hp 627,484,081,437 > 569,475,255,375 so, yes, according to this, at these stats, everything DID in fact work just fine. Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 21, 2006, 11:54:27 PM You all are forgetting to take into account fleet cost calculator. Fleet cost for that mission was 1.2 trillion more then my entier fleet costed
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: ars68 on December 22, 2006, 09:03:02 PM well, I was just saying that the ships themselves did exactly what should have happened... didn't know it was about cost, anyway, it's only up to so much of a % of your own fleet, how much did your ships cost? AND how much did they cost? 1.2 tril more isn't much when it's in the quads, you know, lol. not that it was, just saying, 1.2 tril more by itself... means nothing.
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Seither on December 23, 2006, 08:06:16 PM lol, ars, i highly doubt his ship cost in the quads....i mean, i don't even think the top ten are using quad ships *just* yet, lol.
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on December 24, 2006, 11:23:42 AM all four of the fleets that I was flyinig were just over 4 trillion. The exact value of how much they cost is in my post that has the poll.
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Seither on January 04, 2007, 03:49:41 PM well, didn't emi say that with the cost calculator on, the ships can go 2x your ships cost? so 4T x2=8T>5.4T, so I believe the ships cost is in the clear as well. Though that's if I remember right.
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Nicholas Duo Wolfwood on January 07, 2007, 04:54:06 AM As you tried to say to me in another post . . .Why dont you show us/tell us where to find this information . . . . .
Title: Re: It makes no sense Post by: Seither on January 07, 2007, 04:40:26 PM I'll see if I can't find it, because, as I said, I THINK he said that about the cost calc, not 100% sure though.
~14 posts left~ |