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Author Topic: Diminishing Counters - SO Wars / Full assault  (Read 30205 times)
basill
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« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2008, 01:08:51 AM »

I don't like the cap on bases because many of us at/near the top (and many lowers trying to catch up also)have based our economy on being able to recover with interest if the cap goes on when you are attacked you lose not only segs and maybe workers from negative growth you also lose credits in your base that could be getting interest.
As for dim counters I'm not real happy about that either because you get lowers buying a bunch of kamis and attacking you and you can't hit back at all sometimes even if you put all your ships in reserve you are still to high and if dims go in you will have a lot more lowers buying up kamis just because they know you won't be able to hit back.
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Amagnon
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« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2008, 06:19:52 AM »

... I doubt when you have 15-20mill segs then reduced to maybe 2-5mill or even lower segs after a very hard hit

Chrys - your over estimating the damage in segs a successful attack can do.  A successful boarding attack effects a maximum of 20% of your segs, of which 1/3 are captured and 2/3 of those segs are destroyed.

The PvP probes idea is a good one.

the whole notion of diminishing counters(anybody guess what im gonna say?) seems utterly absurd to me. what a sissified idea. if you can't take a counter you have no business attacking. the whole notion of diminishing counters to protect attackers - am i alone in seeing how ludicrous, chimerical, and bottom - backwards that is?

If you need a counter attack, it means you lost against someone who attacked you - so you lost, you are a loser.  Is this what you are crying for Losted - someone to help you because you are a loser?

But we say "Oh ok - lets not let the losers feel bad - lets give them an unavoidable counter against the guy who is 10x better than them at the game."  It will damage the better players expensive fleet because the loser can just use whatever useless crap they call a fleet and pump all available cash into it because they know it cant be evaded.

Counters should be removed entirely - then the only winners will be those who can land attacks - the losers will just have to fend for themselves.

If you can land a successful attack - then you are going to be winner, the other guy is the loser.

It seems everyone has lost sight of the fact that ONLY attacks create PvP.  With no attacks there is no PvP - counter attacks require no skill (at the moment) - is that why so many players rely on them?

Players who cant plan and execute attacks add nothing to the PvP element of the game, now they sit back and wait so they can counter with a broken system - take away the crutch, lets see who can stand on their feet.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 09:07:26 AM by Amagnon » Report to moderator   Logged
Amagnon
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« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2008, 08:48:10 AM »

I don't like the cap on bases because many of us at/near the top (and many lowers trying to catch up also)have based our economy on being able to recover with interest if the cap goes on when you are attacked you lose not only segs and maybe workers from negative growth you also lose credits in your base that could be getting interest.
As for dim counters I'm not real happy about that either because you get lowers buying a bunch of kamis and attacking you and you can't hit back at all sometimes even if you put all your ships in reserve you are still to high and if dims go in you will have a lot more lowers buying up kamis just because they know you won't be able to hit back.

This almost sounds like a valid point of view on the counters idea - however;

1.  The cap will slow the top end much more than it will slow you Basil.  Therefore your chances of catching up are enhanced.  You have 1.3 million segments - you arent even near the middle, let alone the top - your just under the high growth phase - which extends from about 2 million to 6 million segments.  You will struggle to understand these issues because you would have to extrapolate so much to even draw out the basic concepts.  Its not because your not intelligent enough to understand - its just you dont have the information.

2.  If you are suceptible to kami attack, then youve made an error - better to try and resolve your error than to assume there is no solution.  Fleet setup, base settings, technology and ship design all complement each other to protect you from kami attacks.  Besides kami's dont win combats - they just destroy ships - if it costs them more than it does you, and their economy is less than yours - then you win.
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jessiedog
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« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2008, 09:46:30 AM »

amagnon, for no reason should you be calling lostedchylde a loser. look at her accomplishments on this server and the main server in which she has won multiple top 10 finishes.

and no you dont need to land a successful attack to give a counter. you only need to damage a certain amount of marines or power.

amagnon, honestly you sound the like the loser here. you're crying to everyone trying to get more avoidable counter attacks so that you can attack people without being damaged. when was the last time you made an attack? i havent seen anyone in your range damaged... dont ask me the same: i made an attack yesterday, and the day before, and two days before that, etc

the cap on bases is a horrible idea, but make a new thread for it.
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« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2008, 10:31:52 AM »

Mkay, I am currently working on:

SO WARS - Secret base capacity depends on mothership segment numbers, the more segments you have the more workers / stash can be deposited.
- Any excess amount when the update is implemented will be deposited to the mothership like this: excess workers * 2 + excess stash.
- Once the max capacity is reached for each of the workers / stash excess amount is lost like this: e.g. max stash reached, then you lose worker production & interest, e.g. excess workers  reached, no more growth.
- The max deposit amount will be clearly visible in the secret base, and prob some indications of how much % is beeing used.

Anybody against the cap for sercret base please post and please provide arguments on why you are against it.
You may also express approval and provide arguments on why it would be a good change.

Thank you.

i hope you mean the cash in my base will be dropped into my hand.

ok so your putting this in basicly making every 1's ecom the same.
this basicly mean the top 5 will stop making any money.
wich means in 1-2 months the top 50 can catch up unless ofc i would only grind missions and act like this is the pve server.

i only got 1 question how would this change improve pvp sure like said above i can put my cash into ships and reserve them.
the bad thing is i already have a load of ships in reserve so i increase that to even more so i drop in power.

ok so i spend 1000tril on reserve ships i drop in power but then my credits go up again and i have to build a other reserve fleet and a other 1 and a other 1.

so finaly people catch up on me final some 1 in range i find some 1 i been teching disruptors and he still has a 75% warp change on me i need a scout report first ofc hitting some 1 blind is stupid and boom he warps. ok i return to my base no 1 hits me then i just sit in space with no base some 1 still doesnt hit me and why do you ask simple they dont want to touch me because they know i got so much fleets in reserve and a huge cash reserve.

ok then you might change the warp % to 99% max every 1 will be teching stabs. now teching disruptors wont work that well if some 1 is only a 100k under your power his warp % goes up even more if he out techs you with stabs so no 1 can hit any 1.

then you also got the option 2 always try 2 warp now i dont know how that is put in but i render if you attack some 1 the system checks like this

you press the attack button system checks defender warp settings always try to warp now i dont know the % of that but i render it will be 50/50

now if you get passed that there comes a other warp check i render based on your power and tech vs defender techs and power.
wich is why i think -6 hours on a counter when a warp is a Very bad idea. you need to get passed 2 warp away checks before you can even land a attack.

now that might change a littleif you  just take out the warpsettings on attack Signatures and just make the warp % still be based of warp techs and total power.

this would mean warp techs will have increased use and you would only have 1 warp check to see if some 1 would warp or not.
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Amagnon
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« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2008, 12:06:44 PM »

amagnon, for no reason should you be calling lostedchylde a loser. look at her accomplishments on this server and the main server in which she has won multiple top 10 finishes.

and no you dont need to land a successful attack to give a counter. you only need to damage a certain amount of marines or power.

amagnon, honestly you sound the like the loser here. you're crying to everyone trying to get more avoidable counter attacks so that you can attack people without being damaged. when was the last time you made an attack? i havent seen anyone in your range damaged... dont ask me the same: i made an attack yesterday, and the day before, and two days before that, etc

the cap on bases is a horrible idea, but make a new thread for it.

I didnt call Losted a loser - I asked him if he needed broken counters because he was a loser - anyhow, I was responding to these inflamatory comments in like terms.

utterly absurd. what a sissified idea. ludicrous, chimerical, and bottom - backwards 

If I ever promoted a change for personal benefit this isnt it.  I would benefit sure, so would every player who plays this game aggressively and knows how to land attacks - attacks are what make PvP not counter attacks.

And - of course I havent attacked anyone lately - theres no point.  Did I dream that Id made that the basis of my argument?

I guess I can always attack other players that Ive been leaving alone ..
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jessiedog
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« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2008, 12:12:17 PM »

ive made 4 attacks this week including one an hour ago. the system is fine.
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« Reply #82 on: February 21, 2008, 12:24:03 PM »

emi,
maybe you could open the test server for like a week. everyone could have what they have now and we could try it amagnon's way?

ill never give into it unless i try it, and i might not even then
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basill
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« Reply #83 on: February 21, 2008, 11:35:32 PM »

I don't like the cap on bases because many of us at/near the top (and many lowers trying to catch up also)have based our economy on being able to recover with interest if the cap goes on when you are attacked you lose not only segs and maybe workers from negative growth you also lose credits in your base that could be getting interest.
As for dim counters I'm not real happy about that either because you get lowers buying a bunch of kamis and attacking you and you can't hit back at all sometimes even if you put all your ships in reserve you are still to high and if dims go in you will have a lot more lowers buying up kamis just because they know you won't be able to hit back.

This almost sounds like a valid point of view on the counters idea - however;

1.  The cap will slow the top end much more than it will slow you Basil.  Therefore your chances of catching up are enhanced.  You have 1.3 million segments - you arent even near the middle, let alone the top - your just under the high growth phase - which extends from about 2 million to 6 million segments.  You will struggle to understand these issues because you would have to extrapolate so much to even draw out the basic concepts.  Its not because your not intelligent enough to understand - its just you dont have the information.

2.  If you are suceptible to kami attack, then youve made an error - better to try and resolve your error than to assume there is no solution.  Fleet setup, base settings, technology and ship design all complement each other to protect you from kami attacks.  Besides kami's dont win combats - they just destroy ships - if it costs them more than it does you, and their economy is less than yours - then you win.

I don't want to catch up because the game was changed to slow/stop higher players from benifiting from their own hard work and everyone is sucepitible to a kami attack thats why it's called a kami attack and the fact that they spend more than it's worth doesn't replace one single item that I lose. I have no problem with your playstyle because it fits you but just because mine is different doesn't make it wrong.
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Amagnon
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« Reply #84 on: February 22, 2008, 01:00:56 AM »

Basil -

The stash cap will slow the top players - but its not intended to be put in just to harm them, its to give them a chance to stay in the game, and the cap applies to you also, so it should be a fair change for everyone.
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Cameron07
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« Reply #85 on: February 22, 2008, 03:57:06 AM »

the wars server sucks something needs to be done to make people easier to find.. or easier to attack, and galaxy attack, full assualt attacks should be kept on the wars server.. take it off main!
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Amagnon
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« Reply #86 on: February 22, 2008, 09:37:14 AM »

ive made 4 attacks this week including one an hour ago. the system is fine.

Jessie - when I was in your current postion I didnt see any problem either.

emi,
maybe you could open the test server for like a week. everyone could have what they have now and we could try it amagnon's way?

It will take around 1-2 months for players to adjust and learn - one week is not enough, and if it was on test, it would be just like me explaining it - except slower.
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« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2008, 09:43:05 AM »

then y dont you explain it. when you keep calling me a noob and everything it doesn't help your point.
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« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2008, 12:13:32 PM »

theres no way this will work amagnon. i just warped ur member 12 times in a row, not to mention a 75% chance of warp. a 3% overall chance that he would warp 12 times in a row which is really aggrivating. i would have lost my counter a long time ago, and u think that way is better. maybe if someone attacked you you wouldn't like it.
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« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2008, 08:22:48 PM »

maybe on counters simply taking off the always try would work. you could leave it as warp if fleet is 10% larger.  amagnon, you think that it is unbalanced because you can muster up loads of fleet power on a counter. i recently tried to counter with less fleet power than the opponent and the opponent warped 14 times. thats what i am argueing against.

but imagine this for 1 sec, i attack you, successfully or not, and you get a counter. i reserve my fleets and buddy-neb. now you have 2 real options. reserve your fleet and take your 4 attempts to counter me, try without reserving. either way u basically have a 1/20 chance of getting me. so thats unfair to you and not against ToS.

i just dont see how it will work. i think warp stabilizers are the answer for you if you want to avoid being attacked/countered and you seem to have a lot. i just dont see your point
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