Diminishing Counters - SO Wars / Full assault

[Tzarkoth]

Should be nothing to do with credits. Credits/workers are already over valued.

While there is no point in building bigger ships, having cash or generating it is more harmful than good beyond a certain point.

My economy has accelerated so much that it is almost pointless playing any longer.

[Amagnon]

Adjusting the warp to 1% and 99% is pretty good in and of itself - and would be a welcome adjustment - however it doesnt solve the problem entirely.

Someone can powerup a great deal on a counter - to like 90% to 95% warp chance - so if you dont include warps, the counter is always going to hit a lot harder (and with greater certainty) than the initial attack.

You would never plan an attack on someone and put their warp chance at 95% - no way. 

When your planning an attack - its not even worth going to any trouble planning unless youve got around 50% or less warp chance.  So you reduce your power - and spend a lot of cash setting up an attack to set warp evade to 50% or less.  Then the counter attacker can comfortably set warp evade to 90% or 95% and expect to land the counter attack - effectively hitting back a hell of a lot harder than the attacker.

Its just not balanced - attacking just isnt worth it with the current system.

[SirEmi]

Adjusting the warp to 1% and 99% is pretty good in and of itself - and would be a welcome adjustment - however it doesnt solve the problem entirely.

Someone can powerup a great deal on a counter - to like 90% to 95% warp chance - so if you dont include warps, the counter is always going to hit a lot harder (and with greater certainty) than the initial attack.

You would never plan an attack on someone and put their warp chance at 95% - no way. 

When your planning an attack - its not even worth going to any trouble planning unless youve got around 50% or less warp chance.  So you reduce your power - and spend a lot of cash setting up an attack to set warp evade to 50% or less.  Then the counter attacker can comfortably set warp evade to 90% or 95% and expect to land the counter attack - effectively hitting back a hell of a lot harder than the attacker.

Its just not balanced - attacking just isnt worth it with the current system.

hm, maybe the 1% - 99% combined with the rewards from salvaging destroyed ships in pvp...

[Amagnon]

My economy has accelerated so much that it is almost pointless playing any longer.

This issue is also a fairly big problem I agree - and a good change to counter attacks would help eliminate the problem - I wont elaborate on that for many reasons.

However its worth noting that there is no cap on stash - and its therefore a potentially an unlimited source of wealth.  I posted an idea regarding cash only attacks on another thread - that was in part to address that issue.

I believe that some kind of stash cap is probably needed as well - and it needs to be related to assests that are "in play" in the PvP arena.  That automatically means segments - so some cap on stash thats related to segs. A reasonable limit might be 500,000,000 credits per segment.  That would put a cap of 500 trillion in stash on a player who held 10 million segments.  

I know some players may have exceeded those caps, but they shouldnt be that far above it - so this change wouldnt impact any current players too much, perhaps it could be slowly adjusted down over a period of time as player economies adjust - maybe coming down to 100,000,000 per segment.

[Chrys]

Salvaging items be great but only on attack, counters will have their unlimited attempts within 24hr.

I think turn items, and credits be a better option as rewards. With the need to hunt for targets, the turn items be extremely useful.

Counters, failed or otherwise, will always be able to track your target. That in itself is a pretty powerful tool in the right hands. So its only fair to give the salvaging option to the attackers only, and not the counter-attackers.

[Amagnon]

Emi -

The salvage thing is good - but its got nothing to do with the counter attack system, its not complimentary to it in any way - its apples and oranges.

You dont need counter attacks at all - but if you HAVE TO HAVE them - then the counter should be balanced against the initial attack - which in my view means you just get to know where your attacker is - warp means fail - thats it.  

Even the -6hrs per failed attack, and -6hrs per warp is too much.  I only started on the thin edge because I know the view is so far from how it is now that its hard for players to accept.

But so many of the issues they see are actually related to this one problem.

The rules on SOWARS need to stop punishing attackers - or there wont be attacks - its as simple as that.  Without attacks, theres no PvP.

The counter system needs to count warps as fails - if it doesnt happen I believe anyone who gets into the top end PvP area (10+mil segs) will begin to quit because the game has failed to address the issues in this zone.

Im just about ready to quit from frustration over not even getting anyone to understand this issue - why is it so hard to comprehend????!!!!!

If A attacks B, but then B gets a free attack on A thats a lot harder - why the hell would A attack B?  He'd have to be retarded.

[SirEmi]

What about the counter still showing the location of the attacker, but the base still giving bonuses on attack, so remove the rule where the base support is negated and make the warp chances from 1% to 99%.

Would make bases a lot more strategic to have...

P.S.: The cap on stash / workers depending on segs for SO WARS is a very good idea.

[jessiedog]

theres nothing wrong with alliance members helping with counters. its a good tactic and is in no way exploiting since it gives the player a counter.

the system is fine how it is, i dont know what u guys are complaining about.

sometimes agressive players believe only in reseraching warp disruptors. maybe the aggressive players should only research warp stabilizers. the system is fine, the new update makes things better, the workld goes round 

[SlayerX]

What about the counter still showing the location of the attacker, but the base still giving bonuses on attack, so remove the rule where the base support is negated and make the warp chances from 1% to 99%.

Would make bases a lot more strategic to have...

P.S.: The cap on stash / workers depending on segs for SO WARS is a very good idea.

well dont put on a caps in SOwars untill we found a something to make pvp pick up i dont want to grind missions 24/7 again just to keep my ecom giong.

base helping on counters might be nice but that would mean that the attacker would get a major boost in defence power, but you can warp some 1 from a base but if that would balance out is the question.

a yeah the Tag team buddy tactics some one trows a kami fleet at you wich can even be a Alt if hes in the same allaince i have heard some call it cheap some call it tactics and the ezy way to counter this is what every 1 hates you neb your self   

o and those attacks dont always give a counter 

[jessiedog]

if they do any damage and help the person originally trying to counter at all, then yea they give a counter.

buddy nebbing to avoid tag teams is sometimes tactical. if u are willing to take risks involved with it now, it could save u.

the attacking is balanced. i dont get why people dont   just make more attacks. i understand that they want more to fight for... ive suggested it before... gain 2/3s destroy 1/3s of the 15 or so % in a successful attack

[Amagnon]

On SOMAIN you can arbitarily attack - and keep attacking.  So the counter attack system was designed in the same fashion - this counter attack system is appropriate to SOMAIN - in no way is it appropriate to SOWARS.

IF there was a way I could just keep attacking regardless of my opponent warping - such as the rankings attack - then there would be no issue.  But on SOWARS, the attacking system was changed, but the same counter attack system was left in place - its not appropirate.

[Amagnon]

well dont put on a caps in SOwars untill we found a something to make pvp pick up i dont want to grind missions 24/7 again just to keep my ecom giong.

Riv,  everything should begin to cap out at the top - this allows other players to get up there over time.  You wont need missions - you will be hard at work defending your segs, and over time will have PvP targets.  Where you are now should be the most entertaining part of the game, filled with combat and strategy - theres so much interesting stuff that is already there - I want to see it all unlocked.

Your economies need to be checked - not expanded - I dont actually believe a cap is needed in the long term - but right now it is needed.  Your economies have run away because there hasnt been enough players to compete in the top bracket, but now you have opponents but we cant reasonably attack you because we would get crushed on a counter attack because you dont have to consider fleetpower - you can just turn all your wealth into attack power and chase around anyone who attacked you and turn them to ash.

Your economies are so big that even getting into combat frequently isnt going to be enough to drain your coffers to a point where other players can be competitive, so a cap is a reasonable way to check your economies for a while and allow other players a chance to get into combat.

Ive got no illusions - fighting AI even on fair ground is going to be extremely tough - but as it is now - you wont be attacked by me, and Id advise my alliance members not to attack. 

We can only sit and wait, and hope something changes.

[Tzarkoth]

The Counter system is fine, it works well. Do not change it.

What needs to be changed, is Credits/Workers/Segs contributing to Fleet Power.

Reduce/Remove Credits/Workers/Segs from contributing to fleet Power and we will attack ... I will attack.

As the game stands, I physically can not attack anyone. If someone attacked me they would automatically have a 95% warp chance, modified by Tech.

I am Number 1 on the Ranking, but effectively dead in the water ... Can't do a d**n thing.

Unless Credit/Workers/Segs are fixed ... then this game is pointless.

[Amagnon]

The Counter system is fine, it works well. Do not change it.

What needs to be changed, is Credits/Workers/Segs contributing to Fleet Power.

Reduce/Remove Credits/Workers/Segs from contributing to fleet Power and we will attack ... I will attack.

As the game stands, I physically can not attack anyone. If someone attacked me they would automatically have a 95% warp chance, modified by Tech.

I am Number 1 on the Ranking, but effectively dead in the water ... Can't do a d**n thing.

Unless Credit/Workers/Segs are fixed ... then this game is pointless.

The counter attack system does not work - but it works for you.

The warp mechanic and the contributions of assets like workers and segs force players into equivilent power bands so combat is fair, and conducted between relativey equal players. 

To reduce the contribution of assets is to allow extremely powerful players to utilise all their assets to simply crush weaker opponents with impunity - that is in no way fair to players trying to advance - they are open to attacks from the most powerful players, what can they do?

If the counter system is changed - you will be involved in extremely challenging and interesting PvP.

[SirEmi]

The Counter system is fine, it works well. Do not change it.

What needs to be changed, is Credits/Workers/Segs contributing to Fleet Power.

Reduce/Remove Credits/Workers/Segs from contributing to fleet Power and we will attack ... I will attack.

As the game stands, I physically can not attack anyone. If someone attacked me they would automatically have a 95% warp chance, modified by Tech.

I am Number 1 on the Ranking, but effectively dead in the water ... Can't do a d**n thing.

Unless Credit/Workers/Segs are fixed ... then this game is pointless.

The counter attack system does not work - but it works for you.

The warp mechanic and the contributions of assets like workers and segs force players into equivilent power bands so combat is fair, and conducted between relativey equal players. 

To reduce the contribution of assets is to allow extremely powerful players to utilise all their assets to simply crush weaker opponents with impunity - that is in no way fair to players trying to advance - they are open to attacks from the most powerful players, what can they do?

If the counter system is changed - you will be involved in extremely challenging and interesting PvP.

Ok, one commander suggests that we change, the other that we don't change. Both commanders are high ranked officers.
We need a pool or something that we can work on to determine the best sollution, and a list of good and bads to each change, so we can determine the changes that need to be made.

So far we have the following options SO WARS only:

- warp chance from 1% - 99%
- base protecting commander no matter if counter or normal attack
- cap secret base wealth capcity based on segments
- receive 2/3 of captured segments while destroying 1/3 in PVP
- receive 1/3 of current amount of captured segments but don't destroy any segments
- diminish counter when the target warped away

I think each commander should have two votes, so you can vote for two changes.
The best two changes will be implemented.

If you have any other suggestions please write them so we can add them to the list.
The warp chance based on only fleet power is not possible due to the abuse it would generate.

I will then make the pool for voting.

God Speed commanders!