Warp Evade fixed

[SirEmi]

Warp stabilizers and warp scramblers at high powers were not working properly.

It was intended to work like this:
- 100% Power attacker to 100% Power defender -> 23 warp evade
- if the attacker has more power then for each 2% more Power of the attacker increase warp chance by +1
- if the defender has more power then for each 5% more Power of the defender decrease warp chance by +1
- depending on the above gap between power, warp chance can be negative or more then 100

Warp stabilizer tech
- for each level increase by +2

Warp scrambler tech
- for each level decrease by -2

Determine warp chance:
- If warp chance is negative, on always try set warp chance to 5, in the other instances set to 0
- If warp chance is above 100, set warp chance to 95

Nothing changed there, Min 5, Max 95.

Other fixes:
- When losing segments in combat, the segments count a little more toward the power needed to enter nebula.

[Tzarkoth]

It was intended to work like this:
- 100% Power attacker to 100% Power defender -> 23 warp evade
- if the attacker has more power then for each 2% more Power of the attacker increase warp chance by +1
- if the defender has more power then for each 5% more Power of the defender decrease warp chance by +1
- depending on the above gap between power, warp chance can be negative or more then 100

Can you list some examples so we are perfectly clear what is going on?

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 200 Billion FP, Base Warp % is  23-20% before Warp Techs ?

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 50 BIllion FP, Base Warp % is 23+50% before Warp Techs ?

Attacker has 1000 Billion FP, Defender has 50 Billion FP, Base Warp % is 23+1000% before Warp Techs ?

[SlayerX]

It was intended to work like this:
- 100% Power attacker to 100% Power defender -> 23 warp evade
- if the attacker has more power then for each 2% more Power of the attacker increase warp chance by +1
- if the defender has more power then for each 5% more Power of the defender decrease warp chance by +1
- depending on the above gap between power, warp chance can be negative or more then 100

Can you list some examples so we are perfectly clear what is going on?

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 200 Billion FP, Base Warp % is  23-20% before Warp Techs ?

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 50 BIllion FP, Base Warp % is 23+50% before Warp Techs ?

Attacker has 1000 Billion FP, Defender has 50 Billion FP, Base Warp % is 23+1000% before Warp Techs ?

if i read it right

then example 1 if warps is set 2 always try

warp evasion 5% warp tech dont count here

second 95%

third 95%

second and third how ever depend on your warp and stab techs

[Amagnon]

Can you list some examples so we are perfectly clear what is going on?

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 200 Billion FP, Base Warp % is  23-20% before Warp Techs ?

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 50 BIllion FP, Base Warp % is 23+50% before Warp Techs ?

Attacker has 1000 Billion FP, Defender has 50 Billion FP, Base Warp % is 23+1000% before Warp Techs ?

Tz - my calcs return the same values as yours from Emi's stats - good luck, so long and thanks for all the fish.

[whitelightercarl]

Can you list some examples so we are perfectly clear what is going on?

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 200 Billion FP, Base Warp % is  23-20% before Warp Techs ?

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 50 BIllion FP, Base Warp % is 23+50% before Warp Techs ?

Attacker has 1000 Billion FP, Defender has 50 Billion FP, Base Warp % is 23+1000% before Warp Techs ?

Tz - my calcs return the same values as yours from Emi's stats - good luck, so long and thanks for all the fish.

 

[jessiedog]

Intelligence Officer: This mothership commander is 122698% of our power.
Danger level: Insane

Primary objective: Destruction of at least 10% of jessiedog (#3475)'s fleet power.
Chance of warp evasion if attacked: 5%


thank you emi. before this would have said something much much higher.
ill do my own testing if the attacker is bigger than the defender just so i understand more clearly, but its looking  good so far

[SirEmi]

Can you list some examples so we are perfectly clear what is going on?

   if(attackerPower>defenderPower)
      warpChance = 18 + 20 * attackerPower / defenderPower;
   else
      warpChance = 28 - 5 * defenderPower / attackerPower;

Then you apply the warp and scram techs. Then you see if it's below the min / max.

So:

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 200 Billion FP, Base Warp % is  23-20% before Warp Techs ?
=> 28 - 5*200/100 = 18 -/+ techs

Attacker has 100 Billion FP, Defender has 50 BIllion FP, Base Warp % is 23+50% before Warp Techs ?
=> 18 + 20*100/50 = 58 -/+ techs

Attacker has 1000 Billion FP, Defender has 50 Billion FP, Base Warp % is 23+1000% before Warp Techs ?
=> 18 + 20*1000/50 = 18 + 400 -/+ techs

Attacker has 50 Billion FP, Defender has 1000 Billion FP?
=> 28 - 5*1000/50 = 28 - 100 -/+ techs

[FTP]

Attacker has 100.1 bill power defender has 100 bill power.
18+20*100.1/100= 38.02

Defender has 100 bill power attacker has 99.9 bill power.
28-5*100/99.9= 22.995

Means a difference of 0.2% in power is 15% in warp chance..... weird.

[SirEmi]

Yeah i know that FTP, but if I make the difference lower it will affect the warp chance when attacking lower power commanders.

The attacker is usually over the defender power anyway.

[Pirates]

Don't really see how this changes much. The guys who figured out this exploit before it was fixed and have already run up their dispruptors to 40 (+80) will still be able to prey on players much smaller than they are with virtual certainty of success. Yes, it adds protection to very small players from very large ones, but the very large players gain nothing from attacking very small ones. The sweet spot is 5 - 10 times TP, because those are the targets that have something worth stealing and you still have the power to one shot them and have no worries about retals.

At two times FP, the cureent forumla gives 18 + 40 + S - D,
which in the case of +80D, gives -2% chance of warp.

At five times FP, the current forumla gives 18 + 100 + S - D,
which, in the case of +80D vs +20S, equals 58% chance.
Still pretty good odds of getting into a fight you can not lose.

A better algorithm for applying the bonuses (for attacker > defender) is:
warpChance = 18 + 20 * attackerPower / defenderPower/100;
warpChance =  warpChance + warpChance (stab -  disrup}

So, in the case of 100x (+40 Disrupt) attacking 50x (+10 Stab):
wC = 18 + 20 * 2/100 = 0.58  (ie: 58%)
wC = 0.58 + 0.58 (0.20 - 0.80) =  0.58 - 0.35 = 0.23 (ie:23% chance of warping)

In the case of a much larger attacker (100x/40d vs 10x/10s):
wC = 18 + 20 * 100/10 = 2.18  (ie: 218%)
wC = 2.18 + 2.18 (0.20 - 0.80) =  2.18 - 1.3 = 0.88  (ie:88% chance of warping)

Since the stronger player will most always have more disrup than defender stab.
the reverse situation is probably not really worth thinking about, but for completeness...

in the case of 100x (+20 D) attacking 50x (+40 S):
wC = 18 + 20 * 2/100 = 0.58  (ie: 58%)
wC = 0.58 + 0.58 (0.8 - 0.4) =  0.58 + 0.23 = 0.81 (ie:81%)

And basing it on FP rather than TP is a joke. Any big player can power down and still have
the cash to board a smaller player to death with virtual certainty of the target not warping.

But any way you slice it, it is closing the barn door after the horses have run off.
Those that capitalized on this programming misstep for the past month  have gained so
much, and the rest have lost so much, there is no competition and hence, no game.

The only solution is a game reset.

But even that will not bring back the dozens of players who become disgusted and left.
And since there is no way for newcomers to even get started , they soon quit as well.
This game is dead. (But making it so that no one with more than double your TP can attack
your stations would be a big step towards retaining newcomers. They will never catch the
top players, but at least they could play and enjoy the game.)

[removed some off topic remarks..Pi]

[SirEmi]

In the case of a much larger attacker (100x/40d vs 10x/10s):
wC = 18 + 20 * 100/10 = 2.18  (ie: 218%)
wC = 2.18 + 2.18 (0.20 - 0.80) =  2.18 - 1.3 = 0.88  (ie:88% chance of warping)

Your suggestion is making it easier to attack lower power commanders.

100 attacker vs. 10 defender with the game formula:
In the case of a much larger attacker (100x/40 disruptor vs 10x/10 stabilizer):
wC = 18 + 20 * 100/10 = 218  (ie: 218%)
wC = 218  + 20 - 80 =  158  (ie: 158%)

So you see the small guy has 158% vs. in your suggestion he has 88% chance to get away... hm, no comment on the other stuff, please keep the discussion about the update.

Thank you

[Pirates]

But doesn't the 158% convert to 95%?
So the difference is really only 7%?

I still think my way has better overall balance, because it preserves some benefit from
a large investment in disrupt in all cases, but prevents it from overwhelming the basic
odds in any case. But the current (new) algorithm is definitely an improvement.

[jessiedog]

it looks good overall
i agree with pirates last post that it is an improvement but a bit more could be done. the warp chance for someone at only slightly less power is very high still, a significant increase from before. this does do a very good job of protecting players from being attacked by players much larger, so overall i would still have to say... 

[SirEmi]

But doesn't the 158% convert to 95%?
So the difference is really only 7%?

I still think my way has better overall balance, because it preserves some benefit from
a large investment in disrupt in all cases, but prevents it from overwhelming the basic
odds in any case. But the current (new) algorithm is definitely an improvement.

Check out what happens when you try to attack a 15% commander with your "improved" algorithm.

In the case of a much larger attacker (100x/40d vs 15x/10s):
wC = 18 + 20 * 100/15 = 1.33 (ie: 218%)
wC = 1.33 + 1.33 (0.20 - 0.80) =  0.53  (ie:53% chance of warping)

Game formula:
wC = 18 + 20 * 100/15 = 133
wC = 133 + 20 - 80 =  73% warp evade