That's what can happen when I post while sleepy.

I think less obliteration will keep more players interested in the game and possibly make PvP more heated by reducing the chance that your target will be knocked out of your range for the foreseeable future in one attack.

I'm trying to figure out whether you simply don't believe the above could be plausible impacts of this kidn of change or if your dislike of the proposal is more based on what you want to happen to your victims.

I just need to clarify--do you see no value in the game or in your personal goals for how to play?

Correct.  I do see the more realistic point being that some damage happen during almost any combat, but from the mechanics of the game, as Spayed did point out the more realistic version could lead to too much of a detriment to PvP.

"pointless" and "horrible" - a bit of hyperbole methinks.

If you're going to attack my suggestion, attack what I suggested ;)  My suggestion is not that all damage represented by the attack value of the ships carry a cost with it (Att * Acc = cost to opponent).  My suggestion was that under the current rules that would indicate a ship was destroyed (Att * Acc > defense + HP * 1 / (1 - Shield)).  So when the current rules would indicate the ship is destroyed, it may instead be damaged and taken out of commission.  This actually helps the PvPer if he chose poorly in his attack



No.  Until the price to fix the ship was paid, the ship would not be combat-ready.

But that's not what the hardcore PvPers generally do--the ones who are taking out entire alliances 3-5 times a week.  Their victims get frustrated and quit before they learn the tricks.


That's a good thing, Jan'go.  With the complexity of this game, I wonder if there's a way to improve the chances of noobs knowing their options.

But others have. 


You are the exception to the rule, though.  Others do power down.  And most players cannot retaliate.  Partially by inexperience, partially because outside of the top 20, the guys who are doing the hitting come in when the other guy is offline or they work their way up the ranks taking out people then moving up.  Then they put everything away again.  You think grinding is boring, try refreshing the ranking every thirty seconds to see if that guy you owe payback to is around.

I know some of the things I suggest suck for you, but I'm ultimately trying to suggest things that are better for the game.  The top 10-15 players are outliers.  Make people want to stay, and maybe you can get some good PvP.  Keep the same club of 15-20 and it will remain as stale as I think you see it today.

Correction, that is your ESTEEMED opinion ;)

We're pretty close to the same page on my base question.  I view it as a strategy among legitimately competetive players and would like to see a stop to the five orders of magnitude drops out of simple bloodlust.  Mechanisms to protect the weak from annihilation should raise the competition both by number of players staying around and by keeping one well-timed attack from essentially knocking someone out of contention.

Quite reasonable.  Most any rule change can have plenty of unintended side effects.

This idea COULD even help PvPers.  If a decommissioned fleet is removed from combat, but only the % cost to players is counted against nebbing, pships may not be an automatic ticket to a 24-hour free ride.

Well, then I alter my proposal to be exactly the same except that the battle log tells YOU that the ship was actually destroyed

Do you only gain satisfaction if you've zeroed someone or is defeating them and hurting them of at least notable value?


All of these I can see.  But the retaliation motivation, which I'd argue is the most compelling, simply does not exist for most players in the game under the current PvP system.


I absolutely agree from a purely strategic standpoint, it is sound.  Fender was a case study in the downside of this last round.  For every Spayed and TNT who got revved up to do something about it, there were probably many more who just got sick of it and walked away from the game.  Allowing one guy that much power is a prime symptom of why you never see "200 players online".

Still causing damage to the player.  It's what real combat is.  You hope to, and sometimes do take out the opponent's carrier, but often you only wound it and take it out of commission for a while.

Okay, Spayed, I've teed up the ball for you...

My question is what is the joy and goal of PvPing in SO Main?

My understanding is that it is very difficult to do for actual competition among fairly evenly matched players but very simple to be a bully, albeit expensive.  It is also usually the case that the defender has no legitimate recourse for retaliation.  Am I missing the point and people really do want competition or is the perception of free-range bully really that attractive to people?

I know some of my posts make people think I make Ghandi look like an enraged berserker, but my issue is that the brand of PvP we have seems to encourage bullying with little competition and keeps the player count in the game at a low level.
 

Really, I don't see how this does anything but help PvP.  Though I've ranted on marines in other posts, I'm not suggesting that ship boarding be eliminated.  I'm only proposing that when raw attack > defensiveness, instead of blowing up the ship (where the PvPer salvages nothing anyway) the defender doesn't lose everything.  This allows him to rebuild sooner--remaining a more viable target while also keeping him around to play.

Just trying to keep more sheep for you to slaughter (just now it's sometimes maim).

Thanks, guys. 

I guess it's the idea of having to not use so much of one's resources that causes part of my issue, but that's likely just my own weirdness.

And to clarify one thing, my comment about Emi wasn't intended to indicate that he's somehow a failure.  I've been in Software for nearly 20 years and know that things take time and that just because I think something is a cool idea does not mean it's best for the entire user base.

Today I know I won't return this round beyond maybe keeping tabs, but I'm creature of habit enough to know that you may just have Ren to kick around at a later date.  GL all.