Royalties discussion

[Seither]

nah, too coplicated ars. Sir Emi's 2nd idea is probably the best so far.

~23 posts left~

[SirEmi]

Ok let's put this in paper:

- Designer makes a good design, gives name to buyer, designer power is 100% in day 1 (theory).
- Buyer makes several purchases of design, each royalty stacks for later use.
- The day ends and royalty is given, and these checks are made:
   1 - Does the stacked royalty exceed 15% of designer shipless power (in credit power - credits have a power value and can be converted to power) at the end of the day? If so, royalty is set at the max. (Note that each design is counted and added, so if you sold 100 designs to 100 commanders, they all get included here.)
   2 - Royalty is less then 15% of designer shipless power (in credit power), the amount is credited as is.

Designer logs and notices some credits, logs indicate the amount received, and maybe a hint that max was reached, and he needs to expand the business. 

How does that sound?

[Soppe]

God why cant ppl just make their own designs... noobs 
ah yes dont take this seriously though. just my meaning and i know most ppl wants to whine about it and say bla bla bla we should have royalties 

[Hellsword]

yeah far as i see it royalties werent supposed to be a source of major income, jsut a small reward for other people liking your designs...

[bigbroni]

wow one of the few really good posts in forum atm jk

1st hellsword ur right.

2nd I like this idea also - a limit is really needed.

w/r bb

[ars68]

ah   what's so complicated about it?

besides, if your afraid to do a little a work to build up a great game, chances are you shouldn't start in the first place, right Emi? (I say that because I'm sure Emi has gone through a LOT of headaches so far getting everything to work through the years )

[Gunfighter Frank]

What I was saying is that all the royalties get paid.  But they all dont make it in the same day.  Only an amount of royalties relitive to the commanders power is given.  if the designer only get royalties less than his power the commander gets them all that day as they are made,  if the royalty is more the rest is put in a trust to be doled out over time and the new royalties are added to this fund.  Also YOu could reduce the royalty amount to like .5% thus not such a great amount when selling huge ships or massive amounts of ships.

and broni the Royalty was implemeted to give back to a designer.  Thus better designers make more in royalties, thus can become a proment sourse of income. not all the income, but a large %  say 20% of a commanders overall income in some cases. or as Sir E has stated 15% would be good.

[bigbroni]

Fine frank if either 20% or 15% - both isn t the main income so that should be fine at all.

But there is no real reason to give the payment to a cdr over several days ... that would just make it possible to feed ppl over a week or longer - my opinion. - A cdr should get like once a day, the rest is lost - otherwise a very low cdr could end in top 30 just after waiting for his payment ... - once a day payment means also that a higher ranked designer will get better payment than a inactive designer ... - that fine I think :-)

w/r bb

[Gunfighter Frank]

Broni and I have been talking about this in length over msn.  I think a fair way for royalties to be paid is to discount credits from the equation and go from cmd. level, workshops, and # of workers.  since that is the real way things get done. and thus a % of the credits per day based on those figures will be the desiding factors in how much a commander can make on a royalty per day but still the commander gets the total of the royalty as he grows in these factors.  I really hate to see a commander with no segments or level in the top when the top 30 has an average of arouind cmd lv of 200+

[Gunfighter Frank]

Hello E I have just done some calculations and this would be even less than a $1 donation is now for 99% of the commanders.  that is even worse than the way it is now. we want all of our 2% not even less than the $1 donation for each transaction. I just did my shipless power and I can make more in 1 mission. than I would get from this new way.  the $1 donation per transaction is at least 10 times more than a single mission for me  per transaction. and I hate to say this but I sell ships that at least 10,000 times the size of one mission.  This is unaccaptble.  I want my 2% but it should be paid per transaction.  if you want to do it like you have stated it should be more like 200 times the missions you can do per transaction total possible, but wait till the ships are used in battle to keep commanders from just buying and selling junk that they cant use.

[deathStar1337]

Emi, I must say that I like your 24hour payment schedule idea but I do have a few changes to it 

I think royaltys should be 2% of what the buyer actually paid for the ship after discounts from gold and his/her commander upto a max of a % of your creds on hand and in your stash per day.

For Example Purposes Only lets say a max of 25% of your credits on hand and in stash per 24 hour period....

A low ranked commander with 10bil creds(hand and stash combined) . Most they can recieve in total for that day is 25% of thier credits&stash at the 00:00 hour, so a max of 2.5Bill credits...

High ranked commander with 10trill creds(hand and stash combined) .Most they can recieve in total for that day is 25% of thier credits&stash at the 00:00 hour, so a max of 2.5Trill credits...

So if one commander buys a ship from you and the 2% of its value is more than 25% of your total credits at the end of the day you would recieve a max of 25% of your total credits.
If a single royalty is less than 25% of your total credits at the end of the day it will get stacked up with all the other royaltys upto a max of 25% of your total credits ...


This will stop people from buying ships with the sole purpose of powering up lower ranked commanders Quickly. Note that i say quickly.

with this methord you can nolonger get more creds from a royalty then u actually have...

the% of your credits that you recieve is the tough thing to work out...

very similar to your idea but... The amount a commander can recive should be based on the credits they have and not the power these credits give off...

Sorry if this confuses anyone, writing is by far my best feature(spelling included LOL!)

[Nicholas Duo Wolfwood]

I for the most part agree with frank.

Here is how I look at it.

Porche designs cars and sells them to people. Those people usually work for dealerships or Porche sends vehicles to dealerships to be sold. Once the vehicle is sold, someone somewhere is getting the royalties ( or in this case, commission) for their design/sale.

Do you think that person is going to accept only getting a set limit of his commission? No. What is the point of making a commission if its just going to be cut into pieces and you won't see it for a certain amount of time? That would be like accepting to be paid for winning the lottery over 20 years. Not only are they going to tax the hell out of it, but you wont see all of it for 20 years. Thats rediculous.

What is the point of designing ships? Making money.

Sure, everyone wants to limit how much people recieve from other people. Fine . . . Here is my solution.

Sure, we can have it where at the end of the day you recieve your royalties, However, DO NOT LIMIT the amount of royalties you recieve.

The problem with royalties is people clone hulls and what not to get other people money, instead of actually using the design. Here is my solution. I know how easy it will be to add a variable to the fleets currently owned into the database for a boolean of weither or not the ship has been used in a mission. You could also include how many missions/encounters/whatever the ship has been involved in. If the cloned ship has not been used at all, then the designer will not recieve credits.


What I have noticed peoplle do though, is they  will clone a fleet, check out the design, design a ship of their own with the same stats and then get rid of the cloned design thus taking credit for others designs. I know this point was brought up long ago and we were told that there would be checks and the sort to prevent this, however we have failed to see that, so why now are there royalty nerfs? Doesn't really make any sense

[bigbroni]

hum whats the point here? ... - Designers should have thier benefit for makingdesigns, good designers get more benefits OK thats good, but gving ppl like 25% of there combined stash per day at maximum will kill the balance - this will lead to the following facts:

- only ppl with lots of designs (later on for sure only with good designs) will reach top ranks - reason: 25% daily credits boost per day
or
- all ppl will make thier own designs, or only accept blueprints by fiends, so nobody will get any royality anymore - to be honest I am not a very active designer but for missions and encounters I could do my ships after a short time on my own

but most importand:

player, think about what this game is, its ment to be a war / strategy game (OK to my eyes its atm mostly luck based OK) - but not a economy similation - if its ment to be a space trading game fine, than make royalities a major issue (commisions) but than also give the market free (that than called corruption) and give the interrests rates in the stash free - since in real world if u have 10000 euros to invest u ll get a smaller rate then as when u invest 1000000 euros and for a trill euro u prolly get even a little bit more ...

I clearly understand that this game is also about growing and growing happens only with credits, so every one wants to get as much credits as possible - thats the real point here ...

but back to the 2% royalities - so if a designer is to small to get the full 2%/ship daily (after ship used in battle ...) than its that designers fault - if u pay somebody royalities lets say over a week (given that he/she doesn t gets more royalities during that time) we have the same discussion like with the market as we had ... - even ppl being inactive will get lots of cash into thier hand (this could lead to a situation like with lunanova 2 rounds ago ... but since royalities go to at hand cash and not to the stash nobody could farm it this time ...)- or lets say somebody like e.g. Ricu who is a good designer but as far as I know inactive for this and the round before ... - he has lots of designs in the libary - so if some ppl use some of his designs over the entire round he ll get payment and with this power without even having played a single minute ... - thats what many ppl are affraid of - let get ppl paid once a day and all they could not grap is lost - lets say he mafia got the rest lol - since they protect the weak designer from trouble ...

w/r bb

[Nicholas Duo Wolfwood]

weither your 16 or 80 . . you should still have the potential to earn the same amount of money. There should be no cap as to how much in royalties you can recieve.

To fix this, the royalties could be given over a few days, however you should eventually recieve the full amount you should recieve

Say you have 1000 power and you get 10,000 royalty. Provided you stay at that 1000 power, it should take 10 days for that one royalty to be completely paid off. Have it pay total power per day. Since your total power accomidates for cash/workers that you have as well as fleets, it will never be a large portion of your power and thus would cause your power to increase slowly thus preventing boosting, however people will still get their dues that they are owed

[Gunfighter Frank]

ya not a problem one of my designes gives more than 3quad power to the buyer,  and I get a whole 100billion credits for that
   I dont think that is fair in the least.  an arcitect gets like 10% of his buildings cost weather he is a billioniar or a broke student fresh out of college. why should I not get paid my 2% for a good design.  yes I agree that we need to put in checks and balances, and I have put up methods for that and I agree that the royalties should be put into the stash so it can be raided as well for those inactive players.  you need to protect your money so haveing it put in stash is a very good idea.